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9860 Matrix + Complex Number = Problem?


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#1 Tero Niemi

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:05 AM

Hi!

I have bought 9860g to help my engineer studies but now I realized that it cannot operate complex numbers in matrices!!

Texas instruments can do that and older casios as well (FX 1.0, 2.0..)

Is there any program that can help or is there software update?? What can I do? I can't go to the test and fail it with this calculator.

Do I have to buy TI?

#2 Scratty

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 04:20 PM

The main issue as I see it is that complex matrices take up twice as much memory as a real matrix. I guess Casio have come to the conclusion that few students are prepared to trade so much memory for such a feature. I'm not fully aware of how the memory management is done, but you could have a flag for each matrix telling whether it is complex or not (turning an already complex matrix - say Mat X - into a real matrix would correspond to Re Mat X). At least in my theory. I've no idea how TI has solved this.
Also note that matrix multiplications with complex matrices naturally take a longer time to perform (four multiplications and two additions as opposed to just one multiplication).

#3 Guest_mTm_*

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 01:46 PM

im new here
and i havent registered
can i ask something??

actually im considering to buy calc, between 9850 or 9860
and im using it to invers matrix(at least thats what my senior tells me...)
i want to ask, what is complex number? can anyone give me an example?
if 9860 can't compute matrix with complex problem, can 9850GC+ compute it?? (my senior using 9850), because if both of the calc can't compute the same matrix, then its ok.. but if just 9860 that can't compute it.. then i think my only choice is 9850

thanks

#4 The_AFX_Master

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 10:03 PM

I said that.... The 98xx is a piece of junk for engineers.. But, all the people start to flame me :nonono: , I know what i say, 3 years in "pedal to the metal" engineering

#5 kucalc

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 12:39 AM

Never ever call the fx-9860 "a piece of junk". :angry: The fx-9860 has a lot of potential and great possibilities. I've been an electronics engineer for 7 years and a draftsman (technical drawing) for 2 years....

I tried testing out complex numbers on the fx-9860 in matrices.

For those who don't know what complex numbers are:

a+bi

Where a and b a real numbers and i, i^2=-1

Lol :lol: , this problem could be easily fixed through OS manipulation. But first I'm going to release my memory expansion update first...

#6 The_AFX_Master

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 01:18 AM

read carefully, if you don't.. We can have unnecessesary flaming discussion :)

"A piece of junk for engineers "

Kucalc, if you are an electronics engineer, you use complex numbers on matrices every time for ever!, Don't say me that with an O.S manipulation (that's in progress but not finished at now), you can give a serious answer to any people that will buy the calc, an needs NOW these capabilities :huh: .
Wait a bit, go ahead with Lord, Scratty and CFX MASTER. and build the O.S hack, and then, reccomend the tune-up calc. If you haven't the O.S hack, do not reccomend the 9860 to engineering people please, seriously. Not all the users are advanced as you, remind, they are begineers

Regards

#7 LordNPS

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 03:32 PM

Wait a bit, go ahead with Lord, Scratty and CFX MASTER. and build the O.S hack, and then, reccomend the tune-up calc. If you haven't the O.S hack, do not reccomend the 9860 to engineering people please, seriously. Not all the users are advanced as you, remind, they are begineers


The machine is superior, what you do with it, is related to what it has been done with it.... and unless we do it, it is never going to be done...

and you do seam to want a flaming discussion seu filho da puta;

#8 kucalc

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 08:43 PM

Kucalc, if you are an electronics engineer, you use complex numbers on matrices every time for ever!


That's not true actually (except for the part about me being an electronics engineer, that is true :D ). In electronics, you do use complex numbers for electromagnetic waves and AC current, but you rarely use them in matrices. Maybe in quantum mechanics or the less Newtonian, but I'm an electronics guy....

Scalar quantities are the type that most electronics engineers use (voltage (batteries), resistance and current) such as in designs that implement the usage of DC circuits (ex: calculators!, MP3 players, cellphones, portable games, etc.), which in the quantities are 1-dimension and thus you don't need to use complex numbers.

It's when you get to AC, that voltage, current and resistance do not go with 1-dimensional scalar quantities. Thus, you need complex numbers to express two dimensions that could alternate in AC: direction and amplitude.

Example uses of complex numbers in electronics (j represents imaginary number):
You know Ohm's Law right?

* E = I x R
If you were given the resistance of 8+j2 ohms and the current was 2+j3 amps, what would the voltage?
Answer: 10+j28 volts (was able to solve it on a fx-9860)

* I = V/R
What if the voltage of a circuit was 12+j3 and the resistance is 4+j2 ohms, what would be the current?
Answer: 27/10+j3/5 amps (was able to solve it on a fx-9860 also)

Didn't even use matrices, and these are real life mathematical electronics problems. Who told you that electronics engineers "use complex numbers on matrices every time for ever"? :D

I said that.... The 98xx is a piece of junk for engineers.. But, all the people start to flame me :nonono: , I know what i say, 3 years in "pedal to the metal" engineering

LOL! :roflol: Do you really know what you are saying? (Please excuse that, no hard feelings?)

Now I'm off to work on my electronics engineering projects with my delightful fx-9860! :nod:




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