33 replies to this topic

[liquid]

Hey ive been programming my fx-9750G plus for a year now and the games ive made that use graph mode never use the F-Line function as its so slow(i made these games b4 link cable so they were deleted srry). Im just wondering why all the other cfx games on the web out there use F-Line. Using the stats mode to plot xy line graphs from points in a list is much faster, i just cant believe no one else has thought of this in their games and programs???
for example:
This program will make a star move around screen using direction buttons(could be replaced with a man to make a rpg like game?):

ViewWindow 1,127,0,63,1,0
FuncOff
S-WindMan
S-Gph1 DrawOn,xyline,list1,list2,1,Dot
{2,10,18,1,19,1}->List 1
{19,1,19,7,7,19}->List 2
-60->A:-28->B
Lbl 0
Getkey
Ans=0=>Goto 0
Ans=38=>A+10->A
Ans=27=>A-10->A
Ans=37=>B-10->B
Ans=28=>B-10->B
ViewWindow 1+A,127+A,0,63+B,1+B,0
DrawStat
Goto 0

If u try this out you will definatly see the advantage over F-line commands.
Its fast enougth that you wont even see the lines being drawn, they just appear
Using the method above, u dont even have to manipilate the list data as you just change the view-window parameters to move the object across the screen. This could be put to use in moving backgrounds made up of lines, or just simple sprites like a star or man.

If u want u can also do this by manipuilating the list data and not the view-window, but this will slow down as you get images/sprites made up of lots of points, so changing the view-window parameters is best for speed .

An example of the advantage of this method would be to draw a background/map using this, then store it as background pict, then have a man/car/whatever move around the screen using the view-window method like above. You could even rotate the man/car/whatever by manipulating the lists with polar and rec commands.

So it would be cool if authors of cfx games now use this method, or update their games so the drawing is faster.

Another note, if you want to zoom backgrounds or sprites bigger and smaller or squash or stretch them, u can edit the viewwindow parameters, then drawstat which is very fast.

Another note, dont open the programs up in casiocomm as it doesnt recognise all the commands like S-Gph1 DrawOn,xyline,list1,list2,1,Dot, so it stuffs them up when u try to send them too ur calc. Ull have to transmit it with, but not open it for text editing in casio comm.

[liquid]

Also much faster at plotting points with scatter instead of xyline.

[CrimsonCasio]

i actually did this in a few of my older games (it can make small sprites and such, very handy). but its a little hard to keep track of and it takes time to load big lists... also, untill recently i hadn't realized that you could keep it from displaying that "StatGraph 1" thing at the top of the screen every time, which would have made games really anoying.

i agree with you though, it is a much faster way to draw things.

[Marco]

That's a cool trick

I've never used this in my CFX games cause I'd not know about this feature. It works really good though (if I had used it in Forumula 1 for example it would have been a much faster game as this uses much F-Lines).

Btw you can't form shapes only with each line conntected to the next (such as stars), but you also can "deposit the pen" when plotting a point somewhere outside the ViewWin and again plotting inside then. Example (view window is -6.3,6.3,1,-3.1,3.1,1):

{6,6,-6,-6,100,0,2}->List 1
{3,-3,-3,3,100,0,2}->List 2

[Orwell]

This technic has been known for years but actually there are only a few people using it...

[liquid]

ohh good, so ppl have thought of it b4, i like the idea of depositing the pen trick, would save me using multiple stat graphs.
Even with big lists it does get slower but is still way faster, but only if u move the sprite with viewwindow.

But lets face it, about 99% of ppl have never used this technique, so i think it needed some publicity, especially when ure playing gmaes like mario(no offence, good game) and it takes 2 mins for the map to load.

CORRECTION: not mario, i think it was FF7, but the trees looked like the ones on mario.

[CrimsonCasio]

its especially good for replacing things like trees, you can just have a TREE program that loads lists which represents a tree at 0,0. then do List1+#->List1 to position the X coord and List2+#->List2 to position the Y coord.

that way you can place a sprite anywhere on the screen (you can even resize it by multiplying)

[liquid]

Well u can do that, that was how i did it at first, but you could do it better by changing viewwindow parameters and not the list itself. This is faster as u r only changing 4 variables, not heaps of list co-ordinates. Once u have changed the V-win and drawn a tree, store it as background pict, then change V-win again and draw another tree stat graph.
But if u dont want to use a background pict then manipulating the lists is the only way.
Also re-sizing or stretching/squashing sprites is fast by changing V-win, once agin u dont have to manipulate any list data
But the only thing is that V-win can get confusing when placing objects on screen, so u have to spend a while working out the maths of how its going to work out.

[CrimsonCasio]

thats a good point

[Orwell]

You must know that there are some limitations for this technic.

For example, some CFX models (i don't remember the english names, but its Graph30/Graph35 in French) clear the screen before doing the drawstat. That means that if you have different things to show on screen, you have to save the picture first, then use it as a background and then call DrawStat. And on these models, there are only 6 pictures available.

Another thing: on the AFX the F-Line command is quite faster than on CFX models. However, on AFX using the lists is quite slower! The conclusion is that this is sometimes faster to use F-Line than DrawStat on AFX.

Plus, like Marco said it is actually possible to draw discontinous graphics by placing plots outside the view window. This is true for all CFX models. Otherwhise on the AFX a line will be partially drawn to this point, and you have to place it far away of the screen to avoid it.

Thus, the main problem is essentialy a question of compatibility between the different models, that you don't have with the F-Line command. It is not such a big deal, but you must stay aware of that though.

Btw, i agree it is a cool trick, and i was using it everytimes for my CFX progs

Oh and I just found an old french tutorial about it. When this has been written, the technic was already in use for a year or 2. Here it is: http://www.casioland...topic.php?t=662
I was also looking for one of the very first games that was using drawstat for graphics, but couldn't find it on the web I will check my hard disk to find my own copy.

[CrimsonCasio]

umm :| this isnt the correct topic for that question... i'll answer it but please refer all your other questions (and response to this post) to here: http://www.casiocalc...?showtopic=2000

MLC is a programming language, like BASIC or ASM, it comes with a Shell (like Ion) but MLC is not like Ion. with MLC you can program a game and everyone with MLC on their calculator can play your game, no matter what calculator they have.

[PerCasioAdAstra]

a very interesting post, but it makes it all so sad. This tells us that us "hardcore" cfx (which IS the best, ofc:P) programmers, is conservative in our programming language. I find this sad, as programming should be as radical as possible, in order to save load time in games/programs - and also space saving.

I repeat myself - thanks for the tip!

[octobclrnts]

I have a CFX 9850 GB Plus and I have programed some games and other things, but I have never seen these commands...

S-WindMan
S-Gph1 DrawOn,xyline,list1,list2,1,Dot

could you explain these lines to me...I feel like such a newb

[Marco]

Well this are rarely used commands making settings you usually do in Stat menu, most of them available through "Menu"->"Stat" (F4' /> F1' />) in program editor.

DrawOn: "Draw"->"On" (F1' /> F1' />)
xyLine: "Grph"->"xy" (F2' /> F5' />)
list1/2: "List" (F3' />)
Dot: "Mark"->"." (F4' /> F3' />)
S-Gph1: "Grph"->"Gph1" (F1' /> F2' />)

S-WindMan by "Setup" -> ">" -> ">" -> "S-Win" -> "Man" (Shift' /> MENU' /> F6' /> F6' /> F3' /> F2' />)

[Overlord]

S-WindMan desactives the auto-resizing window mode (you enter manually the vwin coordinates)

S-Gph1 is for defining parameters of the first StatGraph
DrawOn to activate the drawing of the StatGraph
xyline to say that you want connected points (xyLine graph)
list1 is the list containing the x-coordinates of your points
list2 is the list containing the y-coordinates of your points
1 is the frenquency of your data, as you want only one point at each coordinate, you enter 1 (you can also enter a list of size = number of points, it can be useful in other stat graphics)
Dot is the symbol placed at each point (dot for a dot, square for a square and cross for.... ... a cross lol)

[octobclrnts]

Wow, this method is pretty cool. Is there some way you could expand it to make several "spirtes" on the screen that "move" independently? This is all new to me so I'm sorry if I'm asking questions that don't seem well thought out.

[CrimsonCasio]

well, you make lists (2) that contains a sprite, then just position it by manipulating the view window, each time you manipulate the view window you will have to use StoPict and RclPict to update your changes.

[octobclrnts]

It seems like this technique could get a little hairy but I think I know what you mean. Thanks for your help.

[CrimsonCasio]

it feels weird to use, but it works really well.

[liquid]

Ok, so ive come up with another idea to speed up programs that draw a lot of different sprites. Instead of loading all the sprite co-ords into a list each time u want to draw a different sprite, you could have used different lists and different list files to achieve up to 18 quick access sprites: 6 lists in each list file= 3 different sprites times 6 files = 18!
Now when u want to draw a different sprite u just change to the correct list file and lists for the S-Graph command eg say u r using a sprite in file 1, lists 1and2,,,,,,and u want too draw another that is in file3 lists 5and6:

Back-Pict 1
File1
S-Graph1 drawon,xyline,list1,list2
Viewwindow (wherever u want sprite to be placed)
Drawstat
StoPict 1
File3
S-Graph1 drawon,xyline,list5,list6
Viewwindow (wherever u want sprite to be placed)
Drawstat
(i know i have written sum commands above wrong, but u know what ones i mean, i just cant be stuffed looking them up in my calc)

As u can see, this is faster than loading in whole lists for different sprites.
This opens options for graphics engines in ur game that loads tiles and maps and sprites.

[Webness]

Ok .. I'm very surpriced over the speed of this drawing tecnic and I've tried to draw a bigger thing 16*16 (a fox) with some twisted pologyns .. It was somewhat slower then the little star, but still impressive.

{5,6,6,5,6,6,4,3,2,1,1,2,2,1,1,4,6,8,7,7,8,10,10,11,12,14,11,9,11,13,13,14,15,15
,14,12,11,12,13,12,14,14,15,15,13,12,12,11,10,10,8,9,8,8,9,8,9,8,8,7,7,9}->List 1
{7,8,10,11,12,13,13,12,12,11,10,9,8,7,5,2,2,4,5,7,8,6,7,7,6,6,3,3,3,5,7,8,7,10,1
1,9,9,9,10,11,11,13,14,15,15,14,13,12,13,14,12,11,10,9,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,15}->List 2

This spirit gets terribly "ugly"when I incrase the sice of it..
..incrased it by adding this below "Ans=28=>B-10->B":

If Ans=31
Then List 1*2->List 1
List 2*2->List 2
IfEnd

This is realy perfect for me .. all the cordinates for the hundred rpg enemies can be stored in a huge mat table and just loaded to the List every time I need'em, the only bad thing is that I'll use 4 enemies and each of'em need 2 lists , but .. is it possible to draw diffrendt colors, like drawing the whole thing in red/green? because I would realy like to draw backgrounds in several colors..

[Overlord]

S-Graph1 drawon,xyline,list1,list2,orange

the corresponding drawstat will be drawn in orange

same for blue and green

so you must separate the colors in different lists

[Webness]

"S-Gph1 DrawOn,xyline,List1,List2,Orange " didn't work, so I tried out "S-Gph1 DrawOn,xyline,List1,List2,1,Orange " and "S-Gph1 DrawOn,xyline,List1,List2,1,Orange Dot" but it just gives me a Syn ERROR for some reason..

[Marco]

You have to take a look for the exact order of the arguments (you mustn't skip any argument): "S-Gph1 DrawOn,xyline,List1,List2,1,Dot,Orange ".

[Overlord]

yes yes i know it was an example lol (i need a calc to find the exact order ^^)

[R00KIE]

Thats really interesting i've never used that (because it didn't know that) but make sure that it is compatible with older 9850, i know for sure that when running a program they skip the last graphics command, most probably this does not apply but because i cannot t&st it (i have a 9850GB+) i'm just making you aware of this problem

[Scratty]

... also, untill recently i hadn't realized that you could keep it from displaying that "StatGraph 1" thing at the top of the screen every time, which would have made games really anoying.

Eh.. but how do you achieve that then?

[vanhoa]

That is on/of by turn on/of the func in setup menu.

[Scratty]

That is on/of by turn on/of the func in setup menu.

Hmm... FuncOff doesn't seem to have any effect on the "StatGraph1" title on my 9950. Weird.

[Scratty]

Hmm.. it appears that "StatGraph1" is always present in the top left corner of the display for a split second no matter if you set the FuncOff or FuncOn property. There seems to be a tradeoff between annoyance and a fast frame rate here . Perhaps there's a bug in my model.

I'm considering making a faster version of GLLINE from Casio OpenGL (or whatever I should name the API). And making a FPS game with StatGraph1 in the corner might be a nice advert for studying statistics (and your teacher might think it is a legitimate game you're working on ) but it is just so very ugly.

[oxinabox]

i beleive the reasons for for the non-use of the stat xy, is:
1 most people who learn to program doing in there free time in highschool
- and most people who program do upper maths, (intro caculus, geometery an triginometry)
- using stats mode is a very much a lower math technique, (modeling with maths, foundations)
- so the first inclination of a upper math student is to use linear formulaes with limmits eg Y=2x, [3,4], f-line is faster and easier than this so when they discover it they use it.

2 alot of programers put more thought in to minmising memory usage, f-line is much more efficent.

well thats how it is to me

[Orwell]

2 alot of programers put more thought in to minmising memory usage, f-line is much more efficent.

I don't really agree with that.
Actually F-Line uses more memory than DrawStat, simply because you have to write every coordinates in the program, and repeat each point for large pictures. With DrawStat in most of the cases you just have to write each point once. Example:

F-Line x1,y1,x2,y2
F-Line x2,y2,x3,y3
F-Line x3,y3,x4,y4
F-Line x4,y4,x5,y5
...

instead of

{x1,x2,x3,x4,x5, ...}->List 1
{y1,y2,y3,y4,y5, ...}->List 2

and there is no real need to let the lists in memory when the DrawStat has been done, thus they don't require a lot more free space

Another important advantage of DrawStat is flexibility. With F-Line you should generally know how many lines you need to draw (or you have to use some loops and lists to iterate over the points). With DrawStat, you just have to create 2 lists (dynamicaly or not), and it will draw the content.

And from my point of view, I'm sure people don't use it simply because they never saw/knew/thought about it. I was a big user of that method before, but I think I would never have used it if someone else never showed it to me