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Casio Unveils Mind-blowing Prizm Series!


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#1 noname11

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:43 PM

Official website: http://www.casioeducation.com/prizm
edu.casio.com: http://edu.casio.com...eries/fxcg10_20
Manual download: http://edu.casio.com...fxcg10_20_E.pdf

Models: fx-CG 10*/20
* North America only

Some of the new features:
- High-resolution color display (384*216 pixels with 2^16 colors)
- USB 2.0 support
- 16 MB flash memory
- Picture Plot functionality
- ...

However, the OS is still very similar to OS 2.00 on an fx-9860GII. :)



Posted Image

Edited by cfxm, 10 October 2010 - 12:11 PM.


#2 TovAre

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 07:47 PM

Awesome,

Not done with the manual, but the CSV-file feature is a notable improvement for me.

I also liked the new approach to data transfer

#3 noname11

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 12:51 PM

A difference between fx-CG 10 and fx-CG 20:

An image file (g3p/g3b) saved (or updated) on the fx-CG20 will not be compatible with the fx-CG10.
[...]
The fx-CG10 will not be able to import image files saved using the above procedures on the fx-CG20.
The fx-CG20 will be able to read image files saved using the above procedure on the fx-CG10.
eActivity files that contain inserted images that were stored (or updated) on the fx-CG20 cannot be opened with the fx-CG10.
If the message "Provided by CASIO" appears at the bottom of the detail screen of an image file or eActivity file that was displayed using the operation under "Viewing Detailed Information about a File in Storage Memory" (page 11-6), that file can be opened on both the fx-CG10 and the fx-CG20.

I hate those education authorities... -_-

#4 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 08:29 PM

Looks interesting... took a brief look at the manual and it looks like they have made some improvements to the BASIC programming language (compared to what I'm used to) - still not quite what I would like however. Does anybody even make BASIC games/utilities anymore?

#5 HabanR

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 09:37 PM

Looks interesting... took a brief look at the manual and it looks like they have made some improvements to the BASIC programming language (compared to what I'm used to) - still not quite what I would like however. Does anybody even make BASIC games/utilities anymore?



This model is a big disappointment. It's 9860G with the same design flaws and mistakes only with "sexy" color high resolution display. The programming language is still bad. No expression to string conversion, no program parameters, no stack, no local variables, no multicharacter variables... It's a toy. Definitely HP50G of TI89 are still better than this new Casio approach to design a calculator.

Edited by HabanR, 09 October 2010 - 09:39 PM.


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Posted 09 October 2010 - 11:13 PM

Wow, the new display turns a simple calculator into a real mini-PC!
Let's port smartphone software to the PRIZM! :D

#7 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 01:24 AM

This model is a big disappointment. It's 9860G with the same design flaws and mistakes only with "sexy" color high resolution display. The programming language is still bad. No expression to string conversion, no program parameters, no stack, no local variables, no multicharacter variables... It's a toy. Definitely HP50G of TI89 are still better than this new Casio approach to design a calculator.

Seems like a fair assessment. I loved the Classpad's programming language but it ran so slow that it was barely usable. They need to port that language over and make it run at a reasonable speed, then I'd be fairly happy (add draw buffering to finish the job).

I am curious what people will be able to do with add-ins though, that screen could allow for some beautiful graphics. I'm not sure what the user created add-in situation is these days, but a few years back people would have been going nuts over that.

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:22 PM

Only 28 variables, no 3D graphs, old programming language (can't output two or more variables without entering <span class=EXE' /> or using LOCATE)...

#9 HabanR

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:26 PM

Only 28 variables, no 3D graphs, old programming language (can't output two or more variables without entering <span class=EXE' /> or using LOCATE)...

No physical or chemical constants again. Addin installable to 9860G isn't solution as you must copy a value of a selected constant to a variable, than switch back to calculator and use the value. It's total nonsense as you cannot use this approach during programming...
I think that the new Prizma is like GameBoy. Using SDK one can program only stupid games, but not useful engineering application as the sdk has no access to calculator's internals... As I have already written before it's only a toy not the calculator for engineers or professionals.

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:47 PM

No physical or chemical constants again. Addin installable to 9860G isn't solution as you must copy a value of a selected constant to a variable, than switch back to calculator and use the value. It's total nonsense as you cannot use this approach during programming...
I think that the new Prizma is like GameBoy. Using SDK one can program only stupid games, but not useful engineering application as the sdk has no access to calculator's internals... As I have already written before it's only a toy not the calculator for engineers or professionals.


The Hp50g is to hard to use. The nspire cas is to weak. The Casio Classpad is about right and if this screen is as awesome as it appears to be, then no doubt it will be used on Classpad which is long over due for a significant update, and that will put another nail in the coffin of that nspire junk. :rolleyes:

This may not be what a professional programmer such as yourself wants, but it is far better than the horrible programing language on the TI nspire series. That language (nspire) is so complicated that people like myself consider that calculator to be non-programmable! :nonono:

#11 TovAre

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:25 PM

This model is a big disappointment. It's 9860G with the same design flaws and mistakes only with "sexy" color high resolution display. The programming language is still bad. No expression to string conversion, no program parameters, no stack, no local variables, no multicharacter variables... It's a toy. Definitely HP50G of TI89 are still better than this new Casio approach to design a calculator.


Casio basic is quite useful for making really small ad-hoc programs, making large ones doesn't make sense to me. I also appreciate that they've re-introduced function memory :)

My Casio's are the most productive Calc's I've ever used, IMHO that's the purpose of a specific purpose device.

#12 MicroPro

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:18 AM

Hi. Thanks for cfxm explaining the differences of fx-cg10 and fx-cg20, but only the image format doesn't seem to be the 'main' difference. Is there any difference in functionality / applications?

#13 noname11

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:02 AM

Hi. Thanks for cfxm explaining the differences of fx-cg10 and fx-cg20, but only the image format doesn't seem to be the 'main' difference. Is there any difference in functionality / applications?

This is the only incompatibility the manual mentions.

#14 Vinx

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 02:52 PM

Hey, has someone tried the PRIZM yet?
I just got it anew today from ebay auction for a high indeed price (and I was crazy enough to bid), the man is a math teacher, he got it by winning some contest in a math conference.

Here is a little review from me:-

The PRIZM's screen is a bid better than what I expected. it's wide (measured 3.2", not 3.7" as advertised) and the display area fills full rectangle, not leaving big space from borders as usual in other CASIO gfx models, and the screen is bright and contrast-adjustable from 1 to 5; I think 3-4 is enough for everyone, 5 is a way too bright; this amazed me a little because its specs specifies 140 hours battery life (Alkaline; Ni-MH was also supported) of continual powered-on; I think it could be a few months in real use which it sits turned off for most of the time (I used fx-7700GB everyday when I was in university, with its 100hrs. batt.life, I remember I replaced batt. every few months); I thought that with this low power consumption, the screen should be much duller than this, but the PRIZM's screen is apparently a very power-saving device. The best thing of all is graphing, with a new color screen and new color shading, graphs look really good.

As for its features, rather disappointing, no CAS and beside the color screen with some additional fancy decoration I see not many things new, The PRIZM displays result in surds in Natural display mode and its font looks more beautiful in this mode than that of GII models which its font looks so dull. Unpacked from its blister pack, there are 3 application installed :- Geometry is nothing new, PicturePlot which should be built-in but not and 'conversion' which is only a supplementary for adding conversion function; showing icon in main menu but do nothing (how stupid); and pre-loaded materials, these take up about 7 Megs of storage memory and leave ~9 Megs of free space, totally there should be 16 Megs storage memory.

Connected to a PC, without installing any driver/application, the PRIZM shows itself as a mass storage drive which represents its storage memory in its root folder and internal memory as a folder (namely '@mainmem'). In fact, there is no single FA-124 alike program was given on its supplementary CD, communication with PC needs only My Computer window, on PC connection, the PRIZM screen shows tips of how to install an add-in, update main memory and import text file which of all are very easy: just copying the file to its corresponding folder. Another new good thing is password protected owner's name (in previous models, anyone can change the user name), I tried the reset button and the password is still intact.

Didn't try the programming yet (I'm not so good at CASIO fx programming, thinking it's just a kid's toy compares to computer languages I use on PC), guess there is nothing new.

Another low side is its body's material, normally CASIO made their gfx calculator with ABS. I don't know what the PRIZM's body made of, but rather sure it's not ABS, it's not as hard as, I tried with the battery cover, it can be twisted with a little force, which never happened before in previous models. Tapping its body on the back, it sounds like tapping on hollow cheap plastic. And the battery cover itself is loose when closed, can shift and make sound over your palm on moving, make thinking of fx-7400gplus-gy's battery cover, very similar in material, shape and sound when tapped. Front cover was made from the similar material but a translucent type, too opaque to be seen its translucency easily.

Summary: A real improvement you can expect form the PRIZM is beauty of color screen and fancy of displaying and doing things with picture (and of course, in exchange of a lot more money -- US$129 MSRP). If you are looking for other thing than these, go another way.

Edited by Vinx, 06 November 2010 - 07:02 AM.


#15 noname11

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 06:05 PM

Some questions:

(1) Is there any interesting material on the CD?
(2) Are there still secret key combos? (Have a look here: http://www.casiocalc...showtopic=4847)
(3) Any way to read out the firmware? (Test this program: http://www.casioking...1.06#dldetails)
(4) How does it look inside? (I don't urge you to open anything...)

#16 TovAre

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 09:28 PM

Hi,

I wonder have you tried the the following workflow:

a. Save a simple excel table as CSV for instance.

Value Frequency
0.90, 1000
0.91, 1200

b. Move it to the Casio

c. Caclulate something simple, like the statistical summary on the data.


Cheers

#17 Vinx

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 06:07 PM

Some questions:

(1) Is there any interesting material on the CD?
(2) Are there still secret key combos? (Have a look here: http://www.casiocalc...showtopic=4847)
(3) Any way to read out the firmware? (Test this program: http://www.casioking...1.06#dldetails)
(4) How does it look inside? (I don't urge you to open anything...)

Hi, cfxm. Good to see you. Well, I'll try to answer those one by one.

(1) Nope, nothing; here is the CD's content:-
(2) Yes, the combination (reset-F2-4-AC) is still there, the screen is not lit-up instead of blank in GII and after ~8 secs, OS Error screen comes up. BTW the OS Update mode can also be activated from system menu.

(3) Tried that program but not succeed, also tried to dump the OS using SL's pfxRecover but not succeed too: no matter I activate receive or OS Update mode, both programs just don't recognize the PRIZM and keep displaying "receive mode not activated" message.

(4) OK, you didn't urge, you just misled me to (don't take it serious, just kidding LOL)
well, here is the photo: (too bad, I dropped my digicam in the waterfall few months ago and didn't buy new one yet, this was taken using my handphone camera--bad image quality. If you want better picture, tell me, I can borrow my friend his digicam and take a new one for you)
Posted Image
This is info on the flash chip:-
Spansion
S29GL256N10TF102
018FF316 J
©Q4 SPANSION
I tried to flip the frontside up and take a photo for you but not succeed, unfamiliar assembly--differ from which of older model. (I bluntly tore the screen cables of 2 calcucators while doing this in the past so I was scared of doing the same thing again this time)

Edited by Vinx, 05 November 2010 - 06:58 PM.


#18 Vinx

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:59 PM

Hi,

I wonder have you tried the the following workflow:

a. Save a simple excel table as CSV for instance.

Value Frequency
0.90, 1000
0.91, 1200

b. Move it to the Casio

c. Caclulate something simple, like the statistical summary on the data.


Cheers

Hello, I tried playing with CSV related feature a little and was not so impressed:-
-CSV file (without text data) exported from Excel works well, I can assign a formula that refer to those imported value. All calculation works. (In fact, CSV is for "Comma Separated Value"-- a text file containing numeric value in text, a data item was separated from each other using commas, you don't need Excel to create it, just notepad is all you need: type in numeric value and separate the data columns with comma, rows with new line and save the text file you created in CSV extension)
-When I export a spreadsheet from the PRIZM to a CSV file, all text data was truncated to null data (in CSV it will be adjacent commas).
-When I import a CSV file containing text data, an error occurs and importing fails.
-When I export a spreadsheet with formula(s) in cell(s), only calculated value was exported as numeric data. (of course, this applies to all CSV exporting, no matter of what program you use to export--including Excel)

So, you can see that only pure numeric value is usable in CSV file with the PRIZM. That's why I wasn't so impressed. BTW, It's much better than nothing-- you don't need to re-key all numeric value and maybe we don't need text in the PRIZM much (really?). This feature is very useful for statistic calculation when you collect data not using EA-200.

Edited by Vinx, 06 November 2010 - 06:43 AM.


#19 noname11

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 01:03 AM

Spansion datasheet: http://spansion.com/...l-n_00_b8_e.pdf
This means the actual flash chip is 32 MB in size! B)

If you want better picture, tell me, I can borrow my friend his digicam and take a new one for you

I think this is not necessary at the moment. Reading out the firmware has a higher priority...

no matter I activate receive or OS Update mode, both programs just don't recognize the PRIZM and keep displaying "receive mode not activated" message.

Seems to be a different protocol then.

Edited by cfxm, 06 November 2010 - 01:11 AM.


#20 Vinx

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    fx-7000G, fx-7500G
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    * once in use, now lost/dead.

Posted 06 November 2010 - 06:37 AM

This means the actual flash chip is 32 MB in size! B)

Wow.. so as soon as we got its firmware image and someone hack, we'll have a lot more of its storage memory. :lmao:

cfxm, what can you suggest me more on dumping the OS? I'll see what I can do.
I also tried with secret OS error screen, but the same thing--"Receive mode not activated".
Diagnostic mode works, but test mode doesn't.

Edited by Vinx, 06 November 2010 - 07:39 AM.


#21 Vinx

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    fx-7000G, fx-7500G
    fx-5500L*, fx-6300G
    fx-4500P*, fx-5800P

    * once in use, now lost/dead.

Posted 06 November 2010 - 07:09 AM

Sorry, there is errors in my review in post#14

The PRIZM was pre-loaded with 7 Mb materials (but the materials on CD is ~10Mb) and with 9Mb left, totally its storage memory capacity is 16 Mb.
And the CD contains 3 PC programs:- Screen Receiver, fx-9860GII Manager Trial and Classpad Manager Trial.

#22 noname11

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 01:39 PM

Another question:

Are there still OS update contacts on the PCB?
Have a look here: http://www.casiocalc...=...ost&p=49150

Diagnostic mode works, but test mode doesn't.

I know - maybe there is another key combo for OS 2.00/3.00 devices?

Update: I asked Simon to have a closer look on this but he could not find anything... :(

Edited by cfxm, 07 November 2010 - 10:01 PM.


#23 TovAre

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 03:56 PM

Hello, I tried playing with CSV related feature a little and was not so impressed:-
-CSV file (without text data) exported from Excel works well, I can assign a formula that refer to those imported value. All calculation works. ...


Thanks for checking things out, a bit disappointing that it didn't deal with the text-datatype (and I guess that timestamps are unsupported as well, since it's numbers only). Deleting a header-row or so before saving as CSV isn't a big deal but it would have been a lot better to get the list-header names automaticly.

#24 DrCoyote

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 05:34 PM

Give us Mac connectivity, and this could be my main calculator.

#25 noname11

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 06:40 PM

what can you suggest me more on dumping the OS?

You may give the 3-pin port a try: pfxRecover does not support this, but the fx-9860G file converter should do.

Give us Mac connectivity, and this could be my main calculator.

Mac OS X is supported now!

Minimum Computer System Requirements
The following are the minimum requirements for a computer to exchange data with the calculator.

* USB port
* Running one of the following operating systems.
Windows XP Home Edition (SP1 or later)
Windows XP Professional (32-bit, SP1 or later)
Windows Vista (32-bit, SP1 or later)
Windows 7 (32-bit, 64-bit)
Mac OS X (10.5.6 or later, 10.6.2 or later)


Edited by cfxm, 07 November 2010 - 12:33 AM.


#26 DrCoyote

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:40 AM

I ordered one.

#27 Vinx

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    fx-4500P*, fx-5800P

    * once in use, now lost/dead.

Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:01 PM

Are there still OS update contacts on the PCB?

As you can see in close-up photo, on the upper right of the glued CPU, there are 4 contacts; labeled 1, 2, 3 and another (different kind) labeled 'X102', I guess one of those first 3 is what you're looking for. BTW, as I said, OS Update mode can also be activated from system menu (system icon in main menu), what's the difference between OS update mode activated normally, by closing the contact and by activate secret 'OS error' screen?
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
These images were resized, full resolution see bolow links (PNG) :-
Full PCB
Upper Part
Close-up

You may give the 3-pin port a try: pfxRecover does not support this, but the fx-9860G file converter should do.

Too bad I don't have the cable, it's insanely expensive in Thailand (Casio genuine ~$150, self made ~$25), that's why I always hesitate to buy.

#28 Vinx

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:17 PM

Oops, just noticed the 'P301' contact. I think this is it, the emergency OS Update contact.
What do you say? cfxm.

#29 noname11

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 03:17 PM

what's the difference between OS update mode activated normally, by closing the contact and by activate secret 'OS error' screen?

There are two OS update screens:
(1) "OS Update", which is the OS-invoked update procedure (this mode may have a few restrictions).
(2) "OS Error", which is the boot code-invoked update procedure.

Nevertheless, the OS update contacts are still very important on older devices:
There are cases where the boot code (the first 64k of the flash) cannot detect an erroneous OS image and tries to boot it - which can be fatal (e.g. continuous reboot loops). To force OS update mode on startup one can close P104 on G/GII devices (P103 shows the test menu). Now, a new OS can be installed!

Luckily, all GII models can also be forced to the "OS Error" screen by following these steps:

- turn off your calculator
- use a pencil and insert its point into the RESTART button hole
- keep the pencil point inside the hole and press <span class=F2' /> + <span class=4' /> + [AC/on]
- put away the pencil, then release the remaining buttons
- the LCD should be blank for at least five seconds
- during this time press <span class=9' /> and release it
- then press <span class=×' /> (multiplication sign) and release it


Too bad I don't have the cable, it's insanely expensive in Thailand (Casio genuine ~$150, self made ~$25), that's why I always hesitate to buy.

You do not need the Casio SB-88 cable - an older serial cable will do as well.

Oops, just noticed the 'P301' contact. I think this is it, the emergency OS Update contact.

Can't say without testing.

PS: TI guys are thrilled about the PRIZM, too: http://www.omnimaga.....php?topic=4758 :lol:

Edited by cfxm, 10 November 2010 - 11:35 PM.


#30 noname11

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:55 PM

Okay, here is my strategy for the firmware part:

(1) If you get hold of an serial cable, then the fx-9860G file converter should hopefully be able to make a copy of the flash chip's content (the PRIZM still supports most of the old protocol infrastructure).

(2) The test menu may have an option to make a copy of the flash chip, too (like on the fx-9860G/GII SD models).
As I already told you, closing P103 on startup normally loads it (also use the Restart button). The tricky part is to figure out what contact does this. I once did it on my fx-9750GII with a small piece of aluminum foil and adhesive tape - but any conductive material is expected to work as well.
The following contacts should be tested: P301 and 1, 2, 3 (near X102).

#31 critor

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 08:52 PM

Hey, has someone tried the PRIZM yet?
I just got it anew today from ebay auction for a high indeed price (and I was crazy enough to bid), the man is a math teacher, he got it by winning some contest in a math conference.


I ordered one.



Do you still have the links where your Prizm were sold/auctionned ?
I'm just curious to check what was described/shown.

Edited by critor, 10 November 2010 - 08:53 PM.


#32 Vinx

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 01:20 AM

;) You got it (check your UCF inbox).

#33 DJ Omnimaga

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:04 AM

I wonder if eventually we will be able to do stuff like this:

Posted Image

(This is a mockup utilizing only the colors shown in the programming section of the user guide)

Maybe if Casio Prizm BASIC is fast enough and that someone ports Celtic III, xLIB or Doors CS7 to the Casio Prizm. That said if the SDK is not too limited, I am sure in other languages we would get even better stuff, considering the screen is 65536 colors.

#34 PAP

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:17 PM

I loved the Classpad's programming language but it ran so slow that it was barely usable. They need to port that language over and make it run at a reasonable speed, then I'd be fairly happy (add draw buffering to finish the job).

You must be the one and only Classpad user who liked its "programming" language. CPbasic's main problem is not the speed - which is definitely unacceptably slow, but I think the major issue is the fact it lacks elementary features that any decent programming language should have, like true subroutine support and data hiding. I am surprised you didn't mention this. Anyway, if there wasn't CPLua, I would sell Classpad years ago - actually a few days after I bought it - or I would let it accumulate dust in a shelf.

#35 Vinx

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 02:33 PM

The Prizm is now out for sell in ebay:- :clap:
ebay item - CASIO FX-CG-10-L-IH PRIZM color Graphing Calc. FX-CG10

but Casio said it will be released on Jan 2011..?!? :blink:

#36 Vinx

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    fx-4500P*, fx-5800P

    * once in use, now lost/dead.

Posted 30 November 2010 - 02:52 PM

...
(This is a mockup utilizing only the colors shown in the programming section of the user guide)
...


That's true. But don't forget that the fx-cg10's highlight is showing 64k colors image in backdrop (and that should be available for programming), so at least the background should be more colorful.. :rolleyes:
BTW, can't say that until tested. <_<

#37 The_AFX_Master

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 05:04 AM

PAP!!!!!

How you doing pal !!!, quite a bit time since the last time we talked :D, hope you´re doing well mate.

Sorry for being of topic guys :P.

#38 Guest_Guest_Qwerty.55_*_*

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 08:01 PM

Just out of curiosity, has anyone figured out what processor the Prizm uses? Also, has Casio officially announced an SDK for third party development?

#39 Guest_Ashbad (from omnimaga)_*

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 03:21 PM

There are two OS update screens:
(1) "OS Update", which is the OS-invoked update procedure (this mode may have a few restrictions).
(2) "OS Error", which is the boot code-invoked update procedure.

Nevertheless, the OS update contacts are still very important on older devices:
There are cases where the boot code (the first 64k of the flash) cannot detect an erroneous OS image and tries to boot it - which can be fatal (e.g. continuous reboot loops). To force OS update mode on startup one can close P104 on G/GII devices (P103 shows the test menu). Now, a new OS can be installed!

Luckily, all GII models can also be forced to the "OS Error" screen by following these steps:



You do not need the Casio SB-88 cable - an older serial cable will do as well.


Can't say without testing.

PS: TI guys are thrilled about the PRIZM, too: http://www.omnimaga.....php?topic=4758 :lol:


yes we are thrilled indeed -- I have even started spriting in 16bit colors in anticipation of a 3rd party SDK NOT IN BASIC. Any news?

#40 HabanR

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 08:57 AM

yes we are thrilled indeed -- I have even started spriting in 16bit colors in anticipation of a 3rd party SDK NOT IN BASIC. Any news?

I'm not thrilled I'm disappointed from this model. I wanted multicharacter variables, local variables, real procedures with params, integral of integral, better functions with strings, builtin constants (not variables) etc. etc.. If I wanted to play, I would buy used gameboy or sony playstation portable...




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