18 replies to this topic

[mlwulf]

Hi everyone. Im currently looking for a new calculator for the university (ive given my texas instruments 83 to my sister) but i can't decide which one, so i have a few questions
My major will be computer science.

Do you think the 9750, 9850, or 9860 will be enough?
If not, how does the casio algebra fx 2.0 compare to the ti-89?

Also, i can't seem to find ANY fx 2.0 calculators for sale anywhere in the u.s. Any ideas on where to get one?

Thanks in advance, i would appreciate a reply

[kucalc]

The fx-9860 may be the best calculator suited for you. A Algebra FX is designed and suited for algebra, which I think you already mastered . fx-9860 has more features and easier functionality per cost than even a TI-89. TI-89's cost about $130 and up right? You could get a fx-9860G for $80 that even has more Flash mem. than a TI-89, or upgrade to a fx-9860SD and have up to a gigabyte of memory (provided that you have that type of flash card, which would be more than 1,600 times more mem than a TI-89). Taking computer science right? The fx-9860 provides units conversion (hexdecimals, binary, octadecimals and decimals) which I think would be helpful. So I suggest you get a fx-9860. Once we get an SDK working, you'll be very pleased with your purchase!

[The_AFX_Master]

The fx-9860 may be the best calculator suited for you. A Algebra FX is designed and suited for algebra,

That's false, the Algebra name is because the AFX was the first casio with a complete CAS (there was a cfx with algebra, but who cares?). AFX at now have more aplications, and SDK

fx-9860 has more features and easier functionality per cost than even a TI-89.

A 9860 is NOT more funcionality (for university) than a TI 89,Could be funcionality/cost (as you said), but it's university, we seek functionality first than cost. And in functionality/cost, AFX (at least in my country) is far superior than a 9860, because it have a bit more functions than 9860 , and it's cheaper (I'm not counting the CAS, for a serious comparation)

You could get a fx-9860G for $80 that even has more Flash mem. than a TI-89, or upgrade to a fx-9860SD and have up to a gigabyte of memory (provided that you have that type of flash card, which would be more than 1,600 times more mem than a TI-89)

1 gigabyte memory? it's a joke??. Please be exact with your answers. this calc can have up to 1gb STORAGE MEMORY (notes, variables...any, but storage.. As far i know, you can't run add-ins from SDcard), An inexpert user would buy the calc thinking that it's 1gb RAM (Oh, i can do rref in 1000x1000 matrix!) , This calc could have 1MB RAM (that's amazing), but only 64 kb is available...the whole mem would be used only via assembler or SDK. small RAM---> Big problems
More storage memory is not better performance.. (Try to dry all the Pacific occean with an straw, you cant)

As far i know fx 9860 does not have more flash mem (without the sd) than a TI89 Ti (1.5mb against 2.7mb, correct if i'm wrong).

I think that an SDK wouldn't be possible at least in some months, reverse assembly..not for trust. Casio doesn't released any bit of info about this. This info would be released months early if we are waiting for an SDK (Casio released O.S updates for this calc!!!, why no an SDK?)

[caspro]

Also, i can't seem to find ANY fx 2.0 calculators for sale anywhere in the u.s. Any ideas on where to get one?

Try www.dynatech.de for buying the afx
You can use the Google translator in Language tools to read the site.

I got an afx2 delivered from Germany to UK in about 4 days.

The Algebra FX can run assembler programs, but I haven't tested this myself.

The 9860 runs BASIC programs much faster than the afx or the cfx
and has a much clearer screen.

Despite my liking of casio calcs for general calculations,
I have to say that the algebra/CAS features on Casio calcs are underwhelming.
No idea what the TI is like though.

[kucalc]

A 9860 is NOT more funcionality (for university) than a TI 89,Could be funcionality/cost (as you said), but it's university, we seek functionality first than cost. And in functionality/cost, AFX (at least in my country) is far superior than a 9860, because it have a bit more functions than 9860 , and it's cheaper (I'm not counting the CAS, for a serious comparation)

...

As far i know fx 9860 does not have more flash mem (without the sd) than a TI89 Ti (1.5mb against 2.7mb, correct if i'm wrong).

LOL!!! Sorry for that, please excuse me... AFX Master, I think you are confused. You're thinking about the TI-89 Titanium Edition! We're talking about the regular TI-89! The REGULAR TI-89 only has (I believe) 639K of Flash memory. You're also overlooking key main features included in the fx-9860 like natural textbook display (makes it easier to type in the equation you want), E-activity (puts in notes, special functions also that integrate into the OS!), a really crisp and clearer display (easy on the eyes), and really fast speed (the TI-89 only runs on a 10MHz or 12Mhz Motorola 68000, fx-9860 runs at a whoppin 40MHz and still faster than even the upgraded TI-89 Titanium). But I admit, there are some areas the TI-89 has that the fx-9860 does not have: like the Advanced Mathematics Software, 3D Graphing and... I think thats it.

A thought to ponder on: And besides, I trust Casio (probably because it's Asian, quality, cool gadgets like those watches with built in TV remote and calculator, synthesizers and etc.) more than TI. Buying a Casio would be supporting them, telling them that people actually use their calculator products, and like thanking them for INVENTING the graphing calculator! What would it be like today if Casio had never invented graphing calculator?

But I understand your view AFX Master. Its probably since that you own a AFX and see it through your eyes, that it is better. And that I own a fx-9860, I think it's better. (Like people who own Nitendo DS vs. Sony PSP). Hope your not angry...

[The_AFX_Master]

Angry me?.. No man, don't worry , i tend to be hard when some comments doesn't fit (as the man who said "the new TI comes with stylus"). . I said all about TI89 TI, because 89's are discontinued in some countries, i think.. The flash of an old 89 are smaller than th 9860, its true. See my avatar, ..I don't have a TI (3 casios), Casio built the best quality and O.S stable calcs.. no doubt. The point is tht 9860 is a powerful calc, But in techinical sciences all his weaks shines. Then, a TI would fit better.. but slower . . btw, i want to buy one 9860, to complete my collection. In my opinion, a 9860 or a AFX must be in pair with a Classpad (if you can spent that 300$). this pair rocks! I MADE EXAMS WITH BOTH CALCS AT TIME!!!! . Classpad running heavy numerical methods on Lua, and AFX with the other calculus.. MULTITASKING!!!! .

A heavy weight feature on the AFX that beats all calcs i've seen is the differential equation solver.. In exams, a rocket for problems that involve ODE's

Kucalc, don't believe in the processor speed.. the O.S does all . An HP 49g+ culd be squashed by an AFX (I did the benchmarking some time ago), Not talking about a 9860, it will destroy the HP . HP ARM9 runs capped at 75MHZ!!! (the max speed is 250Mhz on the original ARM9 cpu). How you explain it?? Simply, HP49g+ is a <insert f-word here>, That emulates old saturn 48g (1993!!!!!) architecture.

We're a family on this forum, there is no reason to punch others

[LordNPS]

Sorry in advance for making being repeating things that have been said already.

I like to think of myself as a proeminent deffender of the 9860 reputation so, here is my arguments in why you should buy yourslef a fx 9860 rather than the AFX2.

So, let's get started:
fx 9860 is the best calculator in it's class, if you do not require a computer Algebric system, then 9860 is the best choice and is not matched by any other calc.

In dynatech, they both cost 89€ so I guess price is not the issue.

9860 benefits from a Natural input display, which allows you to input equations, exressions in their natural form, and that means, for instance that 3/4 is not displayed as 3,4 instead :
.3.
---
.4.
This does avoid you errors input which are most frequent in inoportune situations such as a exam.
AFX doesn't, you have to input massive formulas into a single text line...

9860 has a perfectly contrasted LCD very crispy and defined, and white and black as colors, not dark green and light green like AFX, everyone who has one loves the screen.

For an extra of 30€ your 9860 comes with a SD card slot, which comes handy if you like me, like having all your things in the calc, with a 32 Mb SD card you 'll feel as if the sky is the limit about memory...


9860 benifts from a very faster processor than AFX, while AFX does a graph, fx 9860 completes 3 graphs, and in matrix operations it's 5 times faster. About BASIC programming, using a pseudo OpenGl developed by scratty, 9860 perfors nearly 10 times faster than an AFX in 3D programing.

Currently 9860 is the Casios's little girl, they are developing software for it, add ins, OS updates, while AFX2 is let's say left behind in development.
That's probably due to the fact that Fx 9860 is quite younger than AFX.

Fx9860 comes packed with a USB cable which allows must faster and easier communication, than the serial cable you have to buy (for 50€, or make if you have the skills, and the proper chips) for the AFX.

As far as I know, you do not have the geometry add in which allow you to create manipulate and animate geometrical figures, with a great interface and ease of use. Nor a e-activity aplications which allows you to integrate all the funtionality of your calculator in learning files.

AFX has CAS, that's true, however I guaranty that once a SDK is developed, we will try to port a CAS engine to 9860.

AFX has an already developed SDK, whle the 9860 is still in "development" proving that 9860 is a much newer calc. However in this very topic, we are making an effort for developing the a SDk, we have uncovered some of the machines hardware specs, including very recentrly the processor architecture and speed, you could check 9860 Reverse Assembling topic for that.
But now we have discovered (actually we were tiped off that 9860 uses a SuperH Hitachi processor by an unkown guest ) we can start our atempts to reverse the add ins and fully program the calculator, which thanks to it's Big fat RAM ( it posesses a 512 Kb RAM chip) and the fast 40mhz clocked processor can advance into some 3D features.

Kucalc, don't believe in the processor speed.. the O.S does all yesnod.gif . An HP 49g+ culd be squashed by an AFX (I did the benchmarking some time ago), Not talking about a 9860, it will destroy the HP lmao.gif . HP ARM9 runs capped at 75MHZ!!! (the max speed is 250Mhz on the original ARM9 cpu). How you explain it?? Simply, HP49g+ is a <insert f-word here>, That emulates old saturn 48g (1993!!!!!) architecture.

Actually the U101 oscillator the 9860 s processor uses, can be clocked up to 140 Mhz... it is scalable.
See my post on reverse assemblig relating to the U101 for more info ( it is on the first page of the topic and then follow the link on U101 in one of my posts...)


Now About TI

If you go for the Ti89 you will pay 150€ at dynatech and that's a good price... so it is out of the price range , and that alone should render useless arguments, nonetheless I am arguing :

Ti 89 does posesse a Samsung 68000 ( clocked at 15 mhz) processor which is kind of nice, however running assembler code, it can not match the 9860 in speed which uses a SHC at 40 Mhz , and the super H architecture is far superior to the oldie 68000 , honestly my father, now he runs a civil construction company, but until he's late 30's (he's 50 now) he was head of the software department for a german/ portuguese informatics companiy named riemer, and he reacalls assembling for that processor, and it's predecessor 6800 and he says it was the most terribly concieved processor in his time. If you want me to ask him way I'll do it tomorrow, as he is asleep right now )

Personal opinion of my dad apart, the Ti 89 is much dificult to use and terribly less user friendly ( I love repeating myself), it does not suport Natural text display, It posesses less Storage memory (not counting the Titanium edition) and a slimer RAM... it does have CAS and a more resoluted screen, and nativly suports 3D graphing , so it is your call if the 60 € difrence is worth it...

Edit :Jesus christ, I can't believe I wrote all that, I must have been out of my mind... sorry for you guys who had to read it...

[mlwulf]

Thanks everyone! ive managed to get an fx-9860g for 30$ usd (it was on clearance and was a great deal). This one has 64 kB usable ram and 1.5 mB flash memory, however i dont think it comes with an SD card slot.

Where may i get the OS updates for it? ive looked at casio's site and they seem to give little information about it. Sorry if im being clueless, but im new to this thing

[LordNPS]

At Casio :

http://world.casio.c...860g/index.html

[The_AFX_Master]

I know that AFX vs 9860 is an "warp disc" theme. But,

9860 benefits from a Natural input display, which allows you to input equations, exressions in their natural form,

You can solve partially this problem ,because AFX CAS have natural display from answersd

9860 has a perfectly contrasted LCD very crispy and defined, and white and black as colors, not dark green and light green like AFX, everyone who has one loves the screen.

I think that you don't use an AFX frecuently. There is no problem with the screen. Its's viewable at poor light conditions without a problem.. the background is greenish, sure, but good. Don't compare with the old CFX's screen, that's not the same.

For an extra of 30€ your 9860 comes with a SD card slot, which comes handy if you like me, like having all your things in the calc, with a 32 Mb SD card you 'll feel as if the sky is the limit about memory...

as i did in the previous post.SD storage memory what you can do with this.. e-activities?.

If you have a 400 GB + 400 GB RAID hard disks in your computer, and you have 64MB in RAM, you can play DOOM 3, Or boot Win XP?. No.. You can install XP 200 times, and it will not boot. That's my point. Speed & Storage, seems to be nothing if the calc don't have at least 128 KB ram.
Try to solve a 44x44 matrix, 7 linear ecuations, 4 degree poly, you can't.. even with 512MB in a card... You still can't.. Isn't necessary more discussion, more arguments.. the fact is hard: school calc or soft user calc, no more

But now we have discovered (actually we were tiped off that 9860 uses a SuperH Hitachi processor by an unkown guest ) we can start our atempts to reverse the add ins and fully program the calculator, which thanks to it's Big fat RAM ( it posesses a 512 Kb RAM chip) and the fast 40mhz clocked processor can advance into some 3D features.

--------
do you really think that the people who ask for this calc are ASM-C++ world class programmers?? , that can do a new matrix solver the day before the Mechanics Exam?
do you really think that anyone will build out important things (for a calculator! not for a PSP! ) with a supposed coming SDK?.. including A CAS???. No.
do you trust in reverse assembly without at least the first official SDK to dissasembly??.. i don't, and i'm sure that a lot of people doesn't
do you trust in a guest?.. Anyone can joke as a guest!.. see the classpad forum "O.S 3.00 is released.. my teacher have one, my grandpa have one"..i don't trust in a guest that appears an dissapear here.
--------

I would'n forward with this no sense discussion, There is not the better calc for all. there is a better calc for your needs. Don't recommend a 9860 to an engineering student, or computer science student, be serious. because 9860 is a piece of junk for us. We use AFX only for the CAS, DIFF-EQN, and big matrix,big poly and big linear system capability, Who cares a pretty bright screen when it displays "memory error" ... bah.

[2072]

well looking at the gusest IP, the one who revealed the 9860's CPU is the same who said he already got OS 3.00 from his school...

[The_AFX_Master]

2072.. You don't have idea about how many laughing you caused me with this comment . I could never imagine this coincidence! . Casio have an internal KGB agent here!

[kucalc]

I know that AFX vs 9860 is an "warp disc" theme. But,
You can solve partially this problem ,because AFX CAS have natural display from answersd
I think that you don't use an AFX frecuently. There is no problem with the screen. Its's viewable at poor light conditions without a problem.. the background is greenish, sure, but good. Don't compare with the old CFX's screen, that's not the same.
as i did in the previous post.SD storage memory what you can do with this.. e-activities?.

If you have a 400 GB + 400 GB RAID hard disks in your computer, and you have 64MB in RAM, you can play DOOM 3, Or boot Win XP?. No.. You can install XP 200 times, and it will not boot. That's my point. Speed & Storage, seems to be nothing if the calc don't have at least 128 KB ram.
Try to solve a 44x44 matrix, 7 linear ecuations, 4 degree poly, you can't.. even with 512MB in a card... You still can't.. Isn't necessary more discussion, more arguments.. the fact is hard: school calc or soft user calc, no more
--------
do you really think that the people who ask for this calc are ASM-C++ world class programmers?? , that can do a new matrix solver the day before the Mechanics Exam?
do you really think that anyone will build out important things (for a calculator! not for a PSP! ) with a supposed coming SDK?.. including A CAS???. No.
do you trust in reverse assembly without at least the first official SDK to dissasembly??.. i don't, and i'm sure that a lot of people doesn't
do you trust in a guest?.. Anyone can joke as a guest!.. see the classpad forum "O.S 3.00 is released.. my teacher have one, my grandpa have one"..i don't trust in a guest that appears an dissapear here.
--------

I would'n forward with this no sense discussion, There is not the better calc for all. there is a better calc for your needs. Don't recommend a 9860 to an engineering student, or computer science student, be serious. because 9860 is a piece of junk for us. We use AFX only for the CAS, DIFF-EQN, and big matrix,big poly and big linear system capability, Who cares a pretty bright screen when it displays "memory error" ... bah.

AFX Master, I have found the ROM of the fx-9860, and a SDK may be coming very soon. Looking at the ROM, it could be possible to modify the SD functions, and send the ROM back to the calc (I figured out how to do this! ) so add-ins could load from the SD card. It also seems the CPU could be clocked way, way, way, way faster, but I think Casio clocked it at a steady (but still whoppin fast) 40MHz to maintain power consumption (the faster the CPU, the faster the batteries will drain). Also the Guest was right, the fx-9860 does use SH archeticture, I learned this to be true from looking at the ROM. It could be possible to modify the ROM so the fx-9860 could allocate the missing 512KB (512K for BASIC or User RAM! 1.5MB for Flash!), which is more than the AFX I believe.

I've been wondering why Casio hasn't released an SDK. Maybe it's because they heard we where going to make our own SDK, or maybe because they didn't feel like releasing one...

[The_AFX_Master]

512 kb is LOT!! . if you can "release the beast". of their confined 64k.. go ahead. I want to buy the calc when an SDK be a reality.. About the unknow man.. im still laughing. is a funny coincidence.. this man is the casio's papparazzi working for "The SUN" brithish newspaper . Using whole mem is a fact in ASM/C++.. but, you really know if the O.S could support it?. that's the thing that matters

[LordNPS]

This post is just for you AFX master...

I never seen so much hatred in your words before, perhaps you can't stand this:

Caspro:

Speed:
---------

AFX2+ - Slowest

9850G, 9850GC+, 9970G - all the same

9860G - Fastest

Perhaps you can't stand that while your calc is taking ages to draw a graph multiply matrices etc...9860 does it in a blink of an eye.

Perhaps you can't stand that 9860 has nearly 4 times as much RAM as AFX.

Perhaps you can't stand that C programers might easily implement add-ins in their calc...

Perhaps you can't stand that while you have to constantly chose what programs you are going to take to the tamorrow's class in your calc, we can take them all...

Perhaps you can't stand that the 9860 with the help of it's comunity, great operability...while AFX has given all it could already...

What I do think you can't stand is in fact, the fact your calculator has been left behind...

[The_AFX_Master]

Man.. read my post with precision i never said that 9860 is slow. READ:

1) that speed without memory is nothing. You're in university???. You never do some heavy calculus???...sure
2) i know the RAM, but for average user CRACK THE RAM LOCKING FROM THE OS IS NOT A DEAL!!!!
3) What's blink of eye??? a 10x10, 15x15 matrix?, i can wait 2 minutes for a 44x44 matrix, a maximum 3 degree polys, thats ridiculous, my 570 ms solve this polys!
4) I have all my progs in the calc without problems.. approx 140Kb
5) Don't say about the shiny screen.. for god sake!
6) my opinion is: 9860 is an unbalanced calc for the NORMAL user, if you are the lord of the cracks, go ahead.. we aren't.
6) AFX is 3x slower, i know, but is the best balanced and complete casio calc ever, behind Classpad.

When you find SERIOUS arguments. i can detract. I don't accept that unacuratelly arguments that depends only from the "could be","in a future","in a galaxy so far away".. NO!. I accept arguments that are typed on the 9860 users guide.

[kucalc]

LOL! Come on, let's stop this now. mlwulf got a calculator now and at a really good deal. (I got mine for $90). I'm pretty sure, in fact I might gurantee, that he will have a good time with that calc. Just as long as he got a Casio instead of a TI, we should be all fine about that...

[The_AFX_Master]

Sure, then i declare...