20 replies to this topic

[TyYann]

After a while using my 9860, there were few things that I wished could be better. Don't flame me, that calc is wonderful and I love it.
I just hope some Casio people will read me and...

1-First, a minor bug.

In STAT mode, if you press OPTN' /> F1' /> and anything from the bottom menu, then the Menu disapears.
Try typing "Dim List 1" and you will understand what I mean.

2- From an other post : I wish we could have complex matrixes and bigger ones.

3- Though "Sum List 1" gives a real for answer, you can't use it in a formula in Graph mode. You can write it using Shift' /> Catalog, but the graph doesn't appear. If you press Trace, you get "Y=ERROR" for any X
Not to mention Mean or other list functions.
Too bad, I wish I could Graph some formulas like Y=sum((List 1-X)?)

4- In Stat Mode, the Graph called "MeanBox" doesn't exist any more (It exists in CFX 9850 for example).
Not that I use it often, but why supressing a feature ?

5- To graph functions such as
y=x? if x<2
y=x? if x>=2
I use this kind of formula (I recommend the trick, by the way) :
y=(X?)?(X<2)+(X?)?(X>=2)

However, the relational operators (<, >, etc.) can't be accessed other way than with the Shift' /> Catalog.
I wish for an easier access in Graph formulas...

Any other whish ? Any workaround ?


EDIT :

6- No access to Function memory in Run mode when set up on Math Input Mode. Being able to recall a function anytime, edit it (by pressing "See" on the function memory menu) anytime would be wonderful

[caspro]

I use this kind of formula (I recommend the trick, by the way) :
y=(X?)?(X<2)+(X?)?(X>=2)

However, the relational operators (<, >, etc.) can't be accessed other way than with the (SHIFT) Catalog.
I wish for an easier access in Graph formulas...

I suspect you are graphing with the Graph mode get this problem.

Instead try Run mode, with (SHIFT) (F4) (F5) to get the graph functions.

And then (SHIFT)(VARS)(F6)(F3) to get the relational operators.

Too bad, I wish I could Graph some formulas like Y=(sum(List 1-X)?)

I've played around a bit to find a way of doing this.

First store (Sum(List 1-X)?) in function memory with
Run mode, (OPTN)(F6)(F3)(F1) 1 (EXE)

then go into Table mode (7), put fn1 in Y1 by using (OPTN)(F6)(F1)(F3) 1 (EXE)

then set the table range to say 0, 10, 0.1 using (F5) for 'SET'

then produce the table with (F6) for 'TABL'

then draw it with (F5) for 'G.CON'

then use arrow keys to move the graph around for a better view.

[TyYann]

I suspect you are graphing with the Graph mode get this problem.

Right

Instead try Run mode, with (SHIFT) (F4) (F5) to get the graph functions.

And then (SHIFT)(VARS)(F6)(F3) to get the relational operators.

But I don't know why we couldn't do that in Graph mode...

I've played around a bit to find a way of doing this.

First store (Sum(List 1-X)?) in function memory with
Run mode, (OPTN)(F6)(F3)(F1) 1 (EXE)

then go into Table mode (7), put fn1 in Y1 by using (OPTN)(F6)(F1)(F3) 1 (EXE)

then set the table range to say 0, 10, 0.1 using (F5) for 'SET'

then produce the table with (F6) for 'TABL'

then draw it with (F5) for 'G.CON'

then use arrow keys to move the graph around for a better view.

Wow, really nice, though once again, it shouldn't be so hard to do it directly in Graph mode. That would allow us to get several graphs at the same time on the screen, and use G-Solv , or "y<" for instance.

Checking this, I realized that you can't acces the function memory when your Input Mode is set on Math.
I understand a function typed in math mode can be hard for the calc to convert, but, like in graph mode or program mode etc., it should be possible to be accessed anytime, the machine then switching automatically to Linear Input Mode. But you can access it graph mode anytime, so it's not so bad. One more wish on my wishlist, though.

Anyways, thanks for the workarounds. I really hope an OS update will allow us one day to do that directly.

[caspro]

Yes, lots of limitations of the different modes.

That's the problem with casio graphic calculators.
Everything is just bolted on. No integration into one whole working system.

My first casio graphic was a 7700G before they introduced all this icon-menu modes stuff,
so I've never really used Graph mode, always used Run mode.
Same with programming, I was used to Lbl,Goto,Isz and Dsz so
I didn't bother with with For,To,Step,Do,LpWhile for ages after getting a 9850.
Same with Plot,Plot,Line instead of F-Line or DrawStat and => instead of If,Then,IfEnd
and the display triangle instead of Locate.
The old ways are often quicker though.

I really hope an OS update will allow us one day to do that directly.

Don't hold your breath ...

[huhn_m]

For one thing I might be able to give an anwser:

Physium is not translated, because it migh be easier for casio to write unsegmented files. If it had several languages it would have needed string segments (thats what I call them until I know better . The way it is now this is not needed and everything fits in one 32K segmen.

(Thats just guesses, and well, its nice since it makes analysis easier )

[TyYann]

One more about translations : the very bad French translation for Geometry. See my comments there :
http://www.casiocalc...c...ost&p=35057

[caspro]

Are Casio going to update the 9860 emulator at the same time as they update the OS ?

And can you tell what version of the OS the emulator is by looking at the exe file ?

My wish list would include: using the Seq(, sigma( and d/dx and other functions with complex numbers.

[TyYann]

Oops ! Yes thanks. My message is edited.

[TyYann]

Alpha memory/Setup:
We can't see if there's something stored in the alpha memory or setup !

I guess there is always something. An alpha memory is never empty. A "nothing" is a 0, which is something and takes as much room as any other real number. This is actually very different from a list or a matrix.

The same for the set up, there is always the default parameters.

[TyYann]

Then you can save then somewhere else, in the storage memory or on a SD card. Can be useful to keep different configurations depending on what you're doing.

You can also reset them by choosing "Del" .

[TyYann]

But they are never empty. They are always used.
You mean the listing of their content ? That would be a good idea.

"Math" input mode:
There always has to be an operator to add a fraction behind.

What do you mean ?

[MonkeyofDoom]

It sounds like he means that you can't imput a mixed fraction unless the whole number and fraction are separated by a plus or other operator.

[TyYann]

1- What I am telling is that technically there is no empty/unused variable. They are always there and always contain something. There is no error message like "variable not allocated" and you never have to make any variable declaration like in other languages. When you reset a calc and right away ask for the content of variable A, you don't get an error message, because A and the others do exist. They are not "empty", they always contain a number.

2- I got you. It doesn't even work with 4' /> 5' /> Shift' /> (at least on my calc). Looks like there is a big problem in the treatment of ":" anyways. Except that ":" problem, maybe it is to prevent confusion between 1? and 1?. I mean on the screen, you'd get the same, typing
Shift' /> 3' /> -> 1' /> -> 2' />
meaning 3? and equal to 3.5

OR

3' /> -> 1' /> -> 2' />
meaning 3? and equal to 1.5.

You CAN type them anyways, but maybe the idea is to give us the good habit to use an operator to avoid confusion...

I agree there is something to work on that part too, at least something to dinstinguish them on the screen. (allowing them to be typed the way WE want)

[TyYann]

Btw, natural input means to be able to type formulas like in textbooks, right?
So why you can't type 3:4 with a real colon?

Because this is not an American texbook notation. You write decimal numbers with a "," or a "." ?
3,14 or 3.14 ?
We just don't use the same standard. In French education, they are even shifting from ":" to

Natural input means American standard Natural Input, that's it...

[caspro]

In Britain the decimal point is used 3.75

Also the ratio symbol : is used on road signs:



and also on maps e.g. 1:50 000 scale.

The division symbol is used in primary school when first learning about division, but later on the slash / is mostly used.

The multiplication symbol x is used when first learning about multiplication, but later on it is not used in equations e.g. 20sin 15 +3xy etc as it would get confused with the letter x as a variable, mostly just juxtaposition or the dot.
e.g. with prime numbers 2232=2.2.2.3.3.31

[TyYann]

I got this :
Link

I guess you can translate the "Schreibweisen" part for us (my German is too long ago)

In French Wikipedia, they say the ":" symbol for division has been used first by Leibniz.

And in English Wikipedia we have :
the obelus

Very interesting, actually.

[Andy.Davies]

im going to be off topic for once and say that i prefer the road signs as ratios, it is quicker to understand, especially for non maths people

[TyYann]

Another strange thing that appends on my calc :

In Stat mode :

list 1 :

1,2,3,4,5

list 2 :
0,0,6,6,6

pressing Calc Set, I set
1Var XList to List 1

and
1Var Freq to List 2

So, guess what, if now I press 1Var, what should be Xmin ?

Answer : 3, since 1 and 2 have 0 for frequency.

Unfortunately, this is not the calculator's answer

I guess it's a universal problem, since my CFX-9850GB PLUS and my Sharp behave the same. But I find it weird.

Xmin should NOT be Min(List 1)

[TyYann]

CASIO BASIC:
"Test"->fn1
?->fn1
?->Y1

Can be useful in a program.

In GRAPH Menu:
Y1=x,[,1]
Y2=x+1,[1,]

Wow, you can decide the interval ! Excellent !

[TyYann]

You didn't know about it?
The manual can be really helpful, dude!

Well, I'm French and my manual says :

CFX-9850GB PLUS/FX-9750G PLUS
입문설명서/취급설명서

Though my Korean is not too bad, I think I overlooked this part and missed some subtleties... I got the electronic English version, though, but it's not quite the same on the screen than on paper.

[TyYann]

Or simply log X / log 5

Even ln X / ln 5