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Casio Unveils Mind-blowing Prizm Series!

Started by noname11 , Oct 08 2010 03:43 PM

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96 replies to this topic

#81 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 09:04 PM

JosJuice, on Feb 17 2011, 09:15 PM, said:

It means to "hack" a device to make it run our code. Actually, DJ isn't using the term "jailbreak" 100% correctly in his post, and I'm not sure that I'm using it correctly either.


Got it. I had thought that it might mean a particular kind of hack. From what I read, and I don't really understand it all, it sounds like the jailbreak effort amounts to understanding the code in the "header" of an app which I think is also called a plug-in? Then your code can be substituted in the app and run on the Prism. What is the purpose of the header and is it likely that the effort to hack it will succeed shortly? Also, won't you then need to choose a language to use for your code and create a compiler from that language to the machine code that the prism can execute? and if Casio came out with an sdk, would that not be a compiler for something like assembly or C and would that make all the effort to hack the header no longer important? Thank you for answering my previous question and thanks in advance if you can find the time to answer any of these additional questions. I find this very very fasinating.

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:41 PM

These are jailbreaks:
http://www.casiocalc...?showtopic=3361
http://www.casiocalc...amp;#entry33700

#83 Qwerty.55

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:54 PM

To jailbreak a device means to exploit flaws and/or circumvent security measures in the native software/hardware for the purpose of running code. This is indeed what we have done.

Quote

What is the purpose of the header and is it likely that the effort to hack it will succeed shortly? Also, won't you then need to choose a language to use for your code and create a compiler from that language to the machine code that the prism can execute?


The purpose of the header is to tell the OS what to do with the file. Basically, the header contains the program name, the the screen icons that are displayed in the menu, the file type, the approximate contents of the data, and many other pieces of information that the OS uses. When we write add-ins, what we're doing is essentially tricking the OS into thinking that it's running code from Casio. And yes, we can write add-ins with pretty much whatever content we want, so they're for all intents and purposes cracked.

As for compiled languages, a couple already exist, namely C and Assembly. People are working on getting C to compile add-ins correctly at the moment and Assemblers are being written as well. Personally, I just code in machine language and avoid the hassle.

Edited by Qwerty.55, 18 February 2011 - 05:54 PM.

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:19 PM

Qwerty.55, on Feb 18 2011, 06:54 PM, said:

To jailbreak a device means to exploit flaws and/or circumvent security measures in the native software/hardware for the purpose of running code. This is indeed what we have done.



The purpose of the header is to tell the OS what to do with the file. Basically, the header contains the program name, the the screen icons that are displayed in the menu, the file type, the approximate contents of the data, and many other pieces of information that the OS uses. When we write add-ins, what we're doing is essentially tricking the OS into thinking that it's running code from Casio. And yes, we can write add-ins with pretty much whatever content we want, so they're for all intents and purposes cracked.

As for compiled languages, a couple already exist, namely C and Assembly. People are working on getting C to compile add-ins correctly at the moment and Assemblers are being written as well. Personally, I just code in machine language and avoid the hassle.


Wow. I find this really exciting. Thank you for helping me understand. You guys are awesome!

#85 Guest_nspired math_*

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:22 AM

Anyone heard the latest news from Ti? According to a rumor that Ti themselves spread ti is releasing something big either for the nspire or a whole new a calc. We know os 3.0 for nspire is coming out and a new vernier device but there seems to be somthing else. We'll know after t3 next week.

The rumor is on many sites but here is the link to google groups. http://groups.google...fbc9a7170ab8d4#

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:45 AM

nspired math, on Feb 19 2011, 01:22 AM, said:

Anyone heard the latest news from Ti? According to a rumor that Ti themselves spread ti is releasing something big either for the nspire or a whole new a calc. We know os 3.0 for nspire is coming out and a new vernier device but there seems to be somthing else. We'll know after t3 next week.

The rumor is on many sites but here is the link to google groups. http://groups.google...fbc9a7170ab8d4#


TI has never taken advantage of their processor speed, and with the pressure that the Prism color screen puts on nspire sales, I expect TI to react by opening up nspire programing. They might even offer an SDK (software development kit) for around a hundred dollars, that will compile C and interface it to the nspire. But if the SDK was part of a new OS version, that would be very very significant! TI still has to come out with a color screen so maybe that is what they are up to because if Casio comes out with an SDK, before TI comes out with a color screen then Casio maintains the technology lead. On the other hand, TI is due to introduce an nspire model to replace the Voyage200 and it must offer some significant new math capability that the Voyage doesn't have or it won't sell. It could get very interesting if they introduce that Voyage replacement. Anyway, that's my thinking but who knows, with the kind of decision making that TI has demonstrated with the nspire program, it wouldn't surprize me to hear that the surprize is a new carrying case for the nspire that glows in the dark. On the other hand, if TI is actually spreading the rumor themselves that alone is significant because it means that they have quit ignoring the customer. Oh well, thats my thinking, what do hear?

#87 Dream of Omnimaga

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 04:40 AM

The problem is that if TI releases an higher-end calc or one with many more features, they'll most likely sell it for like $50 higher than the V200 or something. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just OS 3.0 plus some new hardware for school that costs hundreds of dollars, and that OS 3.0 blocked Ndless+ASM/C support. That said, they could maybe release a SDK, but I am certain they'll charge money for it, like they did with the TI-83 Plus one back in 1999-2002 or so.

Oh well, I guess I'll wait and see, but I don't get my hopes up. One thing I dislike about the Prizm are the bugs and the slow BASIC speed, but otherwise I like the calc. It's much easier to read.

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 06:48 AM

DJ Omnimaga, on Feb 19 2011, 05:40 AM, said:

The problem is that if TI releases an higher-end calc or one with many more features, they'll most likely sell it for like $50 higher than the V200 or something. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just OS 3.0 plus some new hardware for school that costs hundreds of dollars, and that OS 3.0 blocked Ndless+ASM/C support. That said, they could maybe release a SDK, but I am certain they'll charge money for it, like they did with the TI-83 Plus one back in 1999-2002 or so.

Oh well, I guess I'll wait and see, but I don't get my hopes up. One thing I dislike about the Prizm are the bugs and the slow BASIC speed, but otherwise I like the calc. It's much easier to read.


I think you are right DJ that it will be OS 3.0 and some new hardware, but keep in mind that people, especially students, really really like the new Casio Prizm a lot, and that may have shocked TI into changing their strategy. Actually they can continue looking like they blocked games for teachers by not facilitating them with an sdk, and at the same time gain some acceptance with the programing community by ignoring Ndless. That approach of having something for everyone would be in their best interests, but they may not understand that. We shall see.

There are endless (no pun intended) new hardware possibilities so I don't have a clue as to what they might do hardware wise but they are certainly going to have to respond to the Casio color display some time soon. I just don't think they have had enough time to develop a color display that won't eat batteries. TI has set up some expectations and if they dash those expectations with hardware improvements that again are only of benefit to high school teachers, that would let every one else down and exaserbate their customer relations futher but they really don't seem to care. So who knows.

I'd like to make one more comment. For the last three years, the TI strategy for customers "who are not high school math teachers" has been "here it is, take it or leave it." "We don't care if we have your business or not." If that additude changes, I think it means there has been a significant management change at TI, and a new era of customer relations is dawning. On the other hand if OS 3.0 blocks Ndless and a sdk isn't provided, that is a very very bad sign because they can change OS's faster than ndless versions can be developed. Hopefully Casio will be more customer friendly. It would certainly be in their best interests to do so. With the iphone and now with the droid, 3rd party software is a significant part of the marketing strategy and for TI to prohibit such software defies logic.

You know DJ, new software always has a few bugs that were not previously noticed, but with good companies that is only a temporary condition. Also, I get the impression that over clocking the Prism can be achieved by software and if the hacking works out (and I think it will) Casio Basic can be circumvented and speed won't be an issue, and programing for a color screen is going to be really awesome.

#89 Dream of Omnimaga

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 09:39 AM

Oh, they tried to block Ndless too, by the way.

1) Immediately after Ndless came out, they released a new calc that cannot be downgraded to OS 1.1, required by Ndless at the time
2) They forced TI-BANK to take OS 1.1 down from their site, but not OS 1.3, 1.4, 1.7 nor 2.0. Mic got a lawyer cease and desist letter. Sure, he was not allowed to redistribute the OSes, but why did TI ask him to only remove 1.1? 1.1 was the only Ndless-compatible OS. Quite a conspiracy there.
3) Later they released OS 2.1, which installed an anti-downgrade protection on calcs, which remained even after deleting the OS. This protection prevented any downgrade below OS 1.7. Another possible attempt at blocking Ndless. Fortunately someone broke that protection and released Nleash.

Afterward they stopped, it seems, but I wonder about OS 3.0...

As for the Prizm I hope Casio fix the bugs eventually. As for BASIC, I think even overclocking won't be enough, though. On the TI-83 Plus, which runs at 6 MHz, you can display 20-25 lines per second. On the Prizm, it takes almost one minute, even if the calc runs at 58 MHz. The language would need to be completely rewritten or parts of it at least.

That said, I am sure solutions will be found.

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:39 PM

DJ Omnimaga, on Feb 19 2011, 10:39 AM, said:

Oh, they tried to block Ndless too, by the way.

1) Immediately after Ndless came out, they released a new calc that cannot be downgraded to OS 1.1, required by Ndless at the time
2) They forced TI-BANK to take OS 1.1 down from their site, but not OS 1.3, 1.4, 1.7 nor 2.0. Mic got a lawyer cease and desist letter. Sure, he was not allowed to redistribute the OSes, but why did TI ask him to only remove 1.1? 1.1 was the only Ndless-compatible OS. Quite a conspiracy there.
3) Later they released OS 2.1, which installed an anti-downgrade protection on calcs, which remained even after deleting the OS. This protection prevented any downgrade below OS 1.7. Another possible attempt at blocking Ndless. Fortunately someone broke that protection and released Nleash.

Afterward they stopped, it seems, but I wonder about OS 3.0...

As for the Prizm I hope Casio fix the bugs eventually. As for BASIC, I think even overclocking won't be enough, though. On the TI-83 Plus, which runs at 6 MHz, you can display 20-25 lines per second. On the Prizm, it takes almost one minute, even if the calc runs at 58 MHz. The language would need to be completely rewritten or parts of it at least.

That said, I am sure solutions will be found.


Thanks DJ for the info about Ndless and Nleash. I wasn't familiar with Nleashes purpose. Perhaps we can talk again in a few days after we see what TI does. They may not do anything that effects us at all but we shall know shortly. It really would be strange if they come out with something trivial after rev'ing everyone up like this.
BTW, TI started something important with the plug in 84 keyboard for the nspire. A follow up would be an optional plug in qwerty keyboard. That way you can plug in a test approved keyboard, or the more convenient qwerty form when not testing. I've been expecting them to release something like that soon. Maybe next week? Nah, probably not.

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 08:51 AM

Guest, on Feb 19 2011, 07:48 AM, said:

There are endless (no pun intended) new hardware possibilities so I don't have a clue as to what they might do hardware wise but they are certainly going to have to respond to the Casio color display some time soon.



They've responded. The TI-Nspire CX, with a color screen and a removable Wifi module has been leaked, although the official announcement is forthcoming.

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 10:44 AM

Fishbot, on Feb 21 2011, 09:51 AM, said:

They've responded. The TI-Nspire CX, with a color screen and a removable Wifi module has been leaked, although the official announcement is forthcoming.


And the Wifi module is for what? Internet access? To connect to a wireless printer? To connect to your computer? To make a wireless phone call? Or to connect to a classroom network so that the teacher can see what everyone is doing without getting off his or her az and walking around the room? TI always has the time and money to develope stuff for the teacher but never for the customer and that is costing them a lot of business.

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 07:15 PM

The teachers *are* TI's market. Most people don't buy calculators for the heck of it. I fail to see how producing products solely for their overwhelmingly dominant market is costing them business. Further, even if it is, TI only makes around 3% of their profit from calculators. That's a very small market for them. They could probably care less what ~1% of a 3% market wants.

BTW: The Wifi module is for their navigator product, which is indeed useful for teachers.

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 05:05 AM

Fishbot, on Feb 21 2011, 08:15 PM, said:

The teachers *are* TI's market. Most people don't buy calculators for the heck of it. I fail to see how producing products solely for their overwhelmingly dominant market is costing them business. Further, even if it is, TI only makes around 3% of their profit from calculators. That's a very small market for them. They could probably care less what ~1% of a 3% market wants.

BTW: The Wifi module is for their navigator product, which is indeed useful for teachers.


I read several years ago that the college and professional market for graphing and cas calc's is actually about 40%. In addition, many high school students buy their own calculators so teachers are maybe half of TI's calculator market. The point I was trying to make is that TI looses business by providing product features for only half of the market while ignoring the other half and to ignore half of a multimillion dollar market is not a good way to run a company that is supposed to strive for maximum profit for their share holders.

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 08:18 PM

Classpad Warrior, on Oct 10 2010, 06:47 PM, said:

The Hp50g is to hard to use. The nspire cas is to weak. The Casio Classpad is about right and if this screen is as awesome as it appears to be, then no doubt it will be used on Classpad which is long over due for a significant update, and that will put another nail in the coffin of that nspire junk. :rolleyes:

This may not be what a professional programmer such as yourself wants, but it is far better than the horrible programing language on the TI nspire series. That language (nspire) is so complicated that people like myself consider that calculator to be non-programmable! :nonono:


What is it that is so complicated with the Nspire programing? It is basically the same language as the one in the TI-89. I have programmed various casios and TI:s, and I do not find the Nspire to be harder to program than the other calculators.

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 02:44 AM

Mauritz, on Mar 1 2011, 09:18 PM, said:

What is it that is so complicated with the Nspire programing? It is basically the same language as the one in the TI-89. I have programmed various casios and TI:s, and I do not find the Nspire to be harder to program than the other calculators.


TI nspire CX allows your own pictures. It will likely have an SDK available quickly. Where is CASIO's SDK? BTW, DOes anyone know what the bios update changes? I haven't installed it yet, I'm afraid it may change something and I like the calculator the way it is now.

#97 JosJuice

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 06:20 AM

Guest_Thanos_of_MW_*, on Apr 2 2011, 03:44 AM, said:

TI nspire CX allows your own pictures. It will likely have an SDK available quickly. Where is CASIO's SDK? BTW, DOes anyone know what the bios update changes? I haven't installed it yet, I'm afraid it may change something and I like the calculator the way it is now.

TI will never release an SDK for the Nspire CX. They haven't released one for the Nspire, and they are incredibly anti-programming. You're right that Casio hasn't released an SDK, but that doesn't mean that they're worse than TI - Casio isn't trying to prevent programming in the way that TI is.
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