5 replies to this topic

[pointyhat]

Been looking for a programmable calculator that doesn't make me want to gouge my eyes out. I am currently using an HP50g which to be honest works, but the documentation is horrible, you have to learn how to use it each time you pick it up, programming is "obtuse" thanks to RPL and it eats batteries like popcorn. It's also not very portable.

I've got a Casio 991ES-PLUS which I rather like and had a 9850G in the late 1990's as well as an FX4000P before that so I've got a fair bit of experience with Casio devices.

From what I understand of dredging through the FX5800P manual, it's a hybrid of a 991ES with the typical Casio programming language from the 9850-series calculators which sounds pretty ideal for my use cases (mainly navigation, geomatics, base-n and stats, particularly regression analysis).

Anyway few questions:

1. Any horrible bugs?

2. Can you back the thing up onto a PC or is it just capable of transferring programs to FX5800P's?

3. Also, I can't find any reference to unit conversions in the manual. Can it do these? Not the end of the world as I can do them manually but it would be nice.

4. Are the keys ok i.e. reliable and have a positive action?

5. Is there an emulator anywhere I can try it with?

Any help appreciated

[flyingfisch]

Hello pointyhat and welcome to UCF! You should introduce yourself.

Just going to start out by saying that I have no experience with the fx5800P, but I have done quite a bit with casio graphing calculators.

Anyway few questions:

1. Any horrible bugs?

Google hasn't brought any up, so I would guess not.

2. Can you back the thing up onto a PC or is it just capable of transferring programs to FX5800P's?

Looks like it does not have a USB port, and I don't know if it has a 3-pin link port for connecting to other 5800s, someone may know more about this than I do.

3. Also, I can't find any reference to unit conversions in the manual. Can it do these? Not the end of the world as I can do them manually but it would be nice.

It does not appear to have a conversions function.

4. Are the keys ok i.e. reliable and have a positive action?

I don't have one, so I can't really say.

5. Is there an emulator anywhere I can try it with?

I don't think so.


I think the 5800P would be fine if that is all you can afford, but personally I would go with an fx9750 or fx9860 as there is a much larger support community for those models, and they have the conversion function and USB port built in.

Hope that helps.

[3298]

How can you not like the 50G? That's the best calculator ever!
Jokes aside, as far as I know, the 5800P is a rather limited calculator. I don't have such a device, but I saw some information about it here and there.
It definitely does not have graphics (in case you need that) or unit conversions. There is no emulator, the keys are probably similar to the ones on all the other Casio calculators (after using the HP keys for a while, the only place where I would prefer the Casio keys is the direction keys - on most Casio calculators they are physically connected into something that can be used as joystick which is especially good for games - but otherwise the HP keys are better because I really feel that I'm pressing down a key).
It should be possible to transfer programs to/from the PC, but there were stories about a calculator which could only transfer to other ones of the same type. I just don't remember which one it was, but an official Casio site about the 5800P mentions calc<->calc communication while saying nothing about calc<->PC. Anyway, if it is possible at all, you would need a serial cable, some PC software and a real serial port on your PC because usually the USB<->serial adapters don't play well with the Casio software.
Also, I wouldn't really be surprised if it had some of the bugs present in my 9750G Plus. Some of them lead to complete memory loss, but at least you need to know about them to actually trigger them. On the other hand, the 50G also has some well-hidden bugs leading to TTRM crashes.
My suggestions for you: If you have some spare money, go for the 9860 series. (The fx-9750G II is also part of it, just a bit cheaper because some features like the flash memory are locked by default.) They can connect to the PC with a simple miniUSB cable and some Casio software, they do have graphics (visualizing something can be helpful after all), unit conversion and some more Casio-Basic commands.
You can also enhance your 50G, there is a library called HLP49 which provides on-calc help for almost all commands. Most of the time the calculator runs for quite some time after it starts to complain about low battery voltage. RPL takes some time to get used to, but I am at a point where I don't really want to go back to the ssllooww Casio-Basic. Just remember to place all parameters in front of the command and use the HIST key (interactive stack) to reorder the stuff on your stack if another command needs them in a different order. In a program, PICK and ROLL are enough in most cases - they take a number n off the stack and look at what is in the n-th stack level. PICK just pushes a copy of that onto the stack, ROLL also deletes the original.
For quick access you can write down some useful things on a piece of paper which you put into the calc's pouch or into the battery case. My piece of paper has LOTS of keyboard shortcuts on it, one side with built-in ones, the other side with custom ones. (Redefining keys is a feature which is only available in HP calculators, and I really like that one.)
Oh, and I carry my 50G _everywhere_. It is definitely much more portable than a laptop.

Edited by 3298, 19 May 2013 - 10:23 PM.

[pointyhat]

Ok I've actually tried porting my programs to a 9850 emulator I found online and I agree, it's just not that good. Definitely nowhere near the 50g. In fact nowhere even near the old TI85 I had years ago. I hit a few major brick walls which means even the higher end devices are useless to me.

Main problems I found with the whole Casio environment: No FP/IP functions (fractional/integer part), no modulo which suprised me as a NEW highly marketed feature (WTF?!?!) leaving a workaround which requires hacking around with modes and integer math, had to hack a lookup table using stat lists instead of using { 1 2 3 } X GET for example. Also when I get stuff wrong (which is frequently), it's absolutely horrible to debug. Oh and the solver is rubbish.

Have not crashed my 50g (yet) and it's all backed up onto an SD card regularly so no major worry there.

Have installed HLP49 and it works rather well - wasn't aware that existed. Has definitely improved my opinion of the device. I have a moleskin that accompanies me most of the time which tends to get shortcuts scribbled in it as well so I'm on the same page there (including user keys).

Bad idea averted - thanks for your information! (sorry Casio fans )

Edited by pointyhat, 20 May 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[flyingfisch]

Bad idea averted - thanks for your information! (sorry Casio fans )

No, that's fine. Though most of the bugs you stated are not present as far as i know in the fx9860 series, I do agree that HP calculators are definitely the highest quality on the market, albeit expensive.

[3298]

Ok I've actually tried porting my programs to a 9850 emulator I found online and I agree, it's just not that good. Definitely nowhere near the 50g. In fact nowhere even near the old TI85 I had years ago. I hit a few major brick walls which means even the higher end devices are useless to me.

The 9850 is an older calculator, the 9860 is definitely better. A bunch of new commands, twice the speed, ...

Main problems I found with the whole Casio environment: No FP/IP functions (fractional/integer part), no modulo which suprised me as a NEW highly marketed feature (WTF?!?!) leaving a workaround which requires hacking around with modes and integer math, had to hack a lookup table using stat lists instead of using { 1 2 3 } X GET for example. Also when I get stuff wrong (which is frequently), it's absolutely horrible to debug. Oh and the solver is rubbish.

There are FP/IP instructions (Frac and Int), they are in the NUM submenu of the OPTN menu. The 9860 also has Mod beginning with OS 2.00. The lists ... well, this is how the Casio calcs work: There is a fixed number of storage places for all data types (26 real/complex numbers, 6 lists (or 20 on the AFX, or 26 on the 9860) times 6 files, 26 matrices, an Ans variable for all of these, and some variables for special purposes; the 9860 OS 2.00 introduces 20 strings). Also, when you get an error message, the left and right cursor keys bring you (with some loading time...) to the place where the error happened.

Have not crashed my 50g (yet) and it's all backed up onto an SD card regularly so no major worry there.

Have installed HLP49 and it works rather well - wasn't aware that existed. Has definitely improved my opinion of the device. I have a moleskin that accompanies me most of the time which tends to get shortcuts scribbled in it as well so I'm on the same page there (including user keys).

Bad idea averted - thanks for your information! (sorry Casio fans )

You apparently didn't try to use low level languages on the 50G then, because that will crash the calc almost everytime you screw up.
You should see my piece of paper: 9cm by 9cm, folded once horizontally and once vertically to make it fit into the battery case, and the user key side has 24 lines of hand-written text on it with enough space for 3 or 4 additional lines. And then there is still some space to the right of the shorter lines. But it's perfectly readable, even without a magnifying glass.
By the way, I recommend actually using the user keys. I assigned HLP49 to rightshift-hold+SYMB and alpha+rightshift-hold+SYMB (the CAT key, just with the shift key held down). With a TakeOver command (that's from SysRPL) it even works while using the editor.
Do this to get that as well:
256. ATTACH (to get the development library commands)
"!NO CODE
!RPL
:: PTR 275C6 xHLP49 ;
@" ASM (the last two symbols in the string must be newline and @) (compiles a program starting HLP49 which works in the editor as well)
DUP 44.31 ASN 44.61 ASN (assign the program to the key combinations)
256. DETACH (you probably don't need the development libary anymore)

Edit: I forgot that you probably don't have extable installed, without it you have to type PTR 275C6 instead of TakeOver. Apparently I spent way too much time with SysRPL if I forget that this is not installed by default. Fixed the above program to use the PTR instead.

Edited by 3298, 22 May 2013 - 11:11 AM.