27 replies to this topic

[L@rk]

This topic has been posted in French FCC and FG100 boards

I have a project of a web site that would allow to gather and collect the whole knowledges acquired on AFX2, in order to make easier researches. Indeed, many developpers and users look in vain for already broadcast informations, but relegated to the 32nd page of this board or right in the middle of a personnal website, owing to non-actuality. Yet a lot of old themes still appear, in a frequent way on the boards (for example transfer problems). Moreover, the lack of centralization and officialization of informations can harm the evolution of researches and the developpement of programs. As an example, yesterday I was reading on Whyp's site :"I am facing a damageable lack of information, mainly in relation with the effective action of communication ports. I don't know exactly if some discoveries have been made about this topic". Such a knowledge base seems to be necessary.

By "knowledge", I mean not only technical publications, libraries, tutorials, lessons, but also programs and games to download, sources, projects, actuality/progression of researches, help on programs, and why not important threads/posts of Afx2 forums, links to Afx2 sites, etc...
As this database must be as exhaustive and opened as possible, it would collect in the same way Basic and ASM datas, from UCN and French communities (FG100 and FCC).

Such a knowledge base must be self-managed. For this reason, i foresee a PHP interface that allows users to add and update datas.

Concerning the graphic aspect, I've been thinking about a CHM-like interface (*.CHM are window's help files), that is: a two-framed interface; the left pane allows to enter keywords and to display search results (searches are "full text", by keyword or by category); the right pane display the content of selected result.

--- following mainly adresses to FG100 members ---
It is not the first time that I suggeest a project which aims at collect information. The problem is that when I ask for the opinion of the community, everybody agrees; but when the project is realized and online, there is nobody to update datas. This time, I will again ask the same question "What do you think about this project ?", but as an answer, I require the assurance that I would not have to face the project alone (whether it would be realized : note that nothing have been begun).

So What do you think about this knowledge base ?

[Mohamed]

That's a good idea indeed, but I wish to see it in success.
Not being pessimistic or anything, but normally you would have a hard time convincing people to contribute, I for example won't have anymore time from now on for something like this.

What interests me most is the documentation, I've always wanted something of this sort and even started researching on my own, and since most of them are French, I got lost in the French sites, and failed to know what I want.
So I would support this area especially the most.

Good luck.

[L@rk]

Thank you for your support.
You are right when you say that the most difficult will be to convince people to contribute.
I want to insist : I don't require a lifetime contribution. The principal is that when you write one day a tutorial, create a library or a program, or have screenshots to broadcast, you think "ah yes, I remember that I must add them to the knowledge base". In other words, this project doesn't need a dedicated contribution. So most of people could take part in this project without a significant waste of time.

[CrimsonCasio]

I'd be happy to contribute, I can provide webspace amoung other things. It would be nice to make it multi-lingual, with at least french and english translations, but also mabey german.

[Andy.Davies]

and im sure betoe would love it if it was in spanish

[CrimsonCasio]

of course, how could i forget

[betoe]

Yeah it would be nice in spanish, but in english es very good too. I put a topic here and in the graph100 forum for acquire some AFX documentation, but the response was an horrible... 0!.

[Overlord]

betoe > 0!=1 lol

[betoe]

LOL your're right , well, its a 0 only.

[Roeoender]

I agree.
But making the project too compilcated will increase the probablility of failure.
I see it this way, it's primary goal would be documenting stuff for programmers:
Simple www site (with easy address, no banners) with tree-like structure of researched topics (with subtopics), like this:
1. Hardware
a) processor
B) keyboard access (bios vars, ints, ports)
c) LCD (graph modes, standard fonts, screen organization, grayscale methods, contrast handling (ints, bios var))
d) comm port (the casio way (from ZX945), other implementations)
e) memory io (phys memory <-> logical address mapping for RAM,ROM,FLASH, reading writing methods)
f) timer - accessing from DOS, ports
g) brief description of ports

2. System level software
*) memory
a) structures in RAM - BIOS/DOS variables, screen buffer etc., "memzones" explained
B) ROM structure (ways to acquire ROM version, "what is where" located in ROM (test menus, fonts, suspicious locations) and it's standard mapping)
c) Flash - disk A: contents, drives L:-K: mapping
*) communication protocol (as used by FA123,Add-in, FlashCOM, Calipso etc.)
*) in-detail hidden menus description
*) booting
*) purpose of standard files (launcher,launtsr,memdisk,saltire*,partbl*, etc.)

3. User software
*) existing PC tools
a) communication
B) compilers
c) graphics tools
d) Flash disk builders (like ROMDISK)
*) important calculator programs
a) file explorers
B) communication programs

4. Currently researched topics
(...)

Each bigger topic would have a maintainer and probably some contributors. Topics strongly connected to programming could have some source code (a common library of routines would be the best). Each topic could have comments added by anyone - so if someone finds out something important then he posts it below the main topic and then it would be included in main document by the moderator (and poster added to contributors).
Finally a program that would join all topics and create one big document would be good.

About the language:
I fear of this situation as it is really probable:
Imagine, that I create some documents in english then they will be easly translated to french (as some (many?) people from the french forum understand it), but documents created in french language would be nevever translated to english (as French don't need it and no one non-french was able to translate it) so I (and many english speaking other) would have nothing for their work and it would give profit only to French.
I would also forget about oher languages (german,spanish etc.) - hey I (and 3 other are from Poland) and I don't moan about using Polish here. So I opt for using english only for all the "source" documents, then if any one have the urge to translate it- well it wouldn't be prohibited ;-).
Roeoender.

[Andy.Davies]

i would like to see a tutorial to learn ASM/c, like Crimson's Casio Basic Tutorial.

[L@rk]

thank you for such a long reply roeoender
Although your topic classification is well-organized, I think it doesn't allow enough liberty concerning the content of this database.
Today I started to build the database, so I've had to think about its structure.
It's a tree-like structure like your, but a little less-constraining.
Here is the (not definitive) wizard that users will have to fill in in order to add an entry to the database : http://fgpstudios.fr...r/addentry.php3

Give me your opinion.

Concerning the site, hosting on a fast server would not be a problem, (and no banners of course).
I forsee a "light" interface with a few as possible pictures.

And about the language, the interface will be in English. On the other hand, I can't assure you that the whole content will be in English : it depends of the courage of french members

[L@rk]

In fact I think I dont think a strictly organized database as you describe it is a good idea.
The aim is that everybody could post what he wants, when he wants, even it's not a perfect and strictly-built article (or file, link, etc ...).
I think the kind of organization I propose is enough flexible to allow this kind of evolution.
If the structure is too constraining, only a few people would be able to post : experimented programmers.

[CrimsonCasio]

it sounds like we could use a forum (phpBB or Invision power board, etc) to do this, that way no coding needs to be done, just a bit of set up then everyone can post their information... (it wouldnt be open to discussion though)

[betoe]

Your idea seems to be good. Also i went to the link you put, and its so nice in the way it is right now.

[L@rk]

Before continuing, I wait for the Roe's opinion.

Otherwise if you detect some English mistakes in my pages, please warn me. And I would like to know what is the American name for G100+ ?
Thank you ;-)

@ crimson : a forum is not a good Idea because
1) it's a too heavy structure for such a project
2) it does not provide enough possibilities about data classification
3) although it's a customizeable interface, the explorer-like style would be hard to build
4) database structure may be not the right and sympliest structure for a knowledge base.

Notes:
When I say "everyone can post their information", I also means that everyone can find what they look for in this database : as Roe says, programmers would find there documentation, but also beginners would find tutorials for example and simple users would find downloads or game tests. During the search, some filters would make the selecting result's category easier.

[[neo]f4kill]

G100+ = AFX 2.0 + ... no?

[Roeoender]

OK, my version just clearly separated respoinsiblility of various topics on maintainers. It isn't constraining as maintaners could merge/split it's topic-structure depending on future interest. The wizard is acceptable but it gives only a minimal view about how the complete system would look like. Alos don't forget about a version (or revision no.) field for the documents. As for now it is acceptable - the easier the better, the more flexible the better too.
Yes G100+ == AFX 2.0+
Roeoender.

[L@rk]

ok thank you roe. I don't forget about your classification.
I have a trial version of the site which is currently waiting on my computer for a FTP (PHP4 & mysql).
I wait the answer of a french FG100 member but if anybody here could provide me this immediatly, I accept ;-)

[CrimsonCasio]

provide what immediately?

[L@rk]

sorry : provide a FTP hosting.
But a FG100 member is about to host my files so it's OK.

[CrimsonCasio]

ok, but if that isnt satisfactory i'll b happy to host you on earthforge.

[L@rk]

The current hosting is not definitive but Mastermage is also happy to host me.
So I don't know what is the best choice.

Otherwise, the db structure is now fixed, and finally we decided to choose Roe's data classification, with only a few changes. (thank you Roe).
Now we're adapting the PHP code for this data structure, and programming admin panel(s) and search system.

[mastermage]

hum crimsoncasio, now I have a new site, I don't need my account on earthforge anymore...

[CrimsonCasio]

ok, no problem

[L@rk]

Dev news :

the project progresses fast. Now we have just to program the admin panel, and some other details, before the opening and the 'first massive update' ;-)

[huhn_m]

I'll contribute with code expamles and such things.

1) Can you give us a link how the final site looks
2) can we add categorys
3) Can we delete and / or edit entrys
4) What about an offline version? I could mirror the page lets say twice a month at school (DSL)
and convert it to a real chm file. That would be good for downloading.

Thats it! Thanks for this great idea!

[L@rk]

1) I hope I would be able to open the site today, so you will soon have the link.
2) Moderators can add, edit, move and blend nodes (categories)
3) Moderators can edit, delete and move entries and items (nodes contain entries, that own items)
4) I don't think an offline version is a good idea because the evolution of the site may be too fast.