34 replies to this topic

[Nexus]

i did write the solely following statement in program application :

INPUT a, ""

and, when i run it, the system ask me for a value for the variable, next, i pushed the OK button and the machine crashes showing the message "ADDRESS (W) ERROR!!" and then, the CP300 auto-reset itself.


im really disappointed with this little big bugs, is the machine reliable for serious work??...whats the matter with the casio people??

I always used to say to everyone that CASIO machines was SOLID PIECES OF TECNOLOGY.

[CrimsonCasio]

it actually probably wasnt that bit of code that crashed the CP, the way the CP stores memory is a little strange but its there for a reason, because of this there are really two sets of info for on your classpad, one in ram and one in flash. the flash gets updated every now and then (its set off by various triggers) and if the CP detects a problem in the ram then the CP crashes its self and loads the last safe data (in a way its protecting you ). this is what causes the time lapse effects I was complaining about. my classpad hasnt crashed in months because I figgured out a simple trick, everytime you do something big (like make a program) turn off the CP and then turn it back on. this triggers the flash storage (and I think a check & repair) which keeps my CP from getting corrupted data.

[Daruosh]

Anyway CD shouldn't crash with a simple problem.
I think CP isn't stable enough yet.

[Nexus]

Thanks for the Hint Crimson : I'll get it in mind but, it sounds like other SOps (I mean the Giant Microsbug) and his badly famous blue screen, at least i don't need to press Alt-Ctrl-Del to restore the machine but, i did lost the entire program when the machine crash. As another fellow has posted, if CASIO don't solve these problems and give us back the missed functions (Example : Equations solved step by step), i'll sell this "thing" and buy another device more reliable.

Again Thanks

[CrimsonCasio]

the classpad is a tranistional device for casio, I think they really didnt know how to do it because they have always been so far behind hp and ti. with the classpad they gave up a bit of their "solid but archaic" business plan but they didnt have the right mentality. instead of releasing a great and inovative product they released something that was basically a buffed up AFX... however, the CP still has the potential to become something great. people like brian at saltire are working maricles behind the scenes on so many levels. many of you really have no idea how far everything has come in such a realtivly short time because of people like brian.

now I have access to several things that nobody outside casio/saltire has, so I know a bit more than most people. the things Ive seen/heard are really inspiring but arnt yet available to the general public. you really shouldnt make a decision about the classpad untill a month after the SDK is released, im betting that the classpad is going to be huge after that.

btw: brian is trying to get the SDK released to UCF members first in a beta version. (its not ready yet, but when it is you should see it here first)

[Nexus]

I understand Crimson, but, how much will cost the solutions from Saltire or other developer??, would you pay for functions that you already have in an older machine??. If i wait a couple month...do you really think that i'll get the fixes?? im not optimistic about.
Next Time i'll think a lot and wait a lot before buy any "EXPERIMENTAL" device like the CP300 (I never thought that it was an experimental machine, i thought it was a serious release).
As you can see, i feel really framed.

[CrimsonCasio]

pay? they are free... you can already get lots of stuff off classpad.org

[Nexus]

Ok Crimson, my only option is across my fingers and wait a while...by the way, i already downloaded all the add-ins from classpad.org (included the SO update), when i talk of cost i hope, not need to buy the classpad 300 plus or something like that to get the right machine.

[CrimsonCasio]

i really doubt it, I think you'd see a revolt if that happened. (and I dont just mean this forum, think of the teachers...)

[Nexus]

Yep, Absolutely true. Thanks

[Nanard]

btw: brian is trying to get the SDK released to UCF members first in a beta version. (its not ready yet, but when it is you should see it here first)

Any news of that? :-) I know...: released in summer but...

[CrimsonCasio]

nothing new, though he tells me he is thinking about releasing a few more demo programs to hold us over.

[DrCoyote]

This thread is demonstrative of my problems with the ClassPad. There are feature gaps, user interface problems, and plain ol' bugs. It makes the ClassPad less of a work machine and more of a frustration.

My latest endeavor is a subroutine to allow me to type a number and press EXE to enter it, rather than using the input command. It is very frustrating to have to do such a thing, but programs I've written that require a lot of numeric input need this routine. Having to tap an 'OK' button for every entry is time consuming and downright silly.

These promises of an SDK 'coming soon', unfortunately, remind me a lot of Royal's DaVinci, a PDA that came out in the early days of Palm OS' popularity. That machine also had a lot of potential, but the popularity waned because Royal was so slow with the SDK and other software they promised. And the DaVinci had an advantage the ClassPad doesn't- It was considerably cheaper than its (more capable) competition.

And as long as I'm on the subject-
ClassPad manager should be free. Period.

I like the ClassPad. But I'm getting tired of 'potential'.

[CrimsonCasio]

you know the input command accepts EXE right? you just have to tap it twice for some reason.

Im prohibited from talking about the SDK but I can tell you that it exists... brian is trying to get a beta version available to UCF members but big companies like casio can be very slow to act...

[SoftCalc]

The ClassPad IS a final product and not a transitional device. It is a revolutionary product that introduces new technology to a calculator. Is everything perfect, maybe not. Is there room for improvement, yes. That is just what happens when new technology is introduced.

Yes, the ClassPad has some bugs, but EVERY calculator has bugs. It is not theoretically possible to release a machine without some bugs. The goal for any software project is to have no known bugs when releasing the product, and to have minimal, non-critical bugs that are rarely encountered after release. When bugs are found, they are scheduled to be fixed so in the next software release and you are back at having no known bugs. With each release the software should become more and more stable. (Note, this is a standard software practice. This has nothing specific to do with any software process held by Casio, TI, or HP).

The TI-92/89/Voyager and the HP48/49/49G+ have had their share of bugs and problems. I think the ClassPad measures up well when compared with the other calculator manufactures.

One thing to note, after using my ClassPad I can't see going back to an older technology calculator. Whenever I pull out my TI or HP I always find myself trying to tap the screen

[DrCoyote]

SoftCalc:

It seems you misunderstand the purpose of my posts. When I level criticisms at the ClassPad, it is meant to be taken in a certain context. I am a senior metrology technician. I use a scientific calculator throughout the day. I need a calculator that is easy to use, very efficient, and very accurate. I also need one that is sturdy, as I move from place to place often in my laboratory. I need a good keyboard and an excellent display, as the data I enter consists of many digits, and the answers I get are often taken out to several places past the radix. I am fairly demanding of my calculators.

So demanding, in fact, that I always carry two. For most calculations, I use my HP 49G. But it is a bit lacking in the statistics department. For that, I usually use my TI 92 Plus.

I actually prefer my MK-52 to the 49G, and I'll often use that, if I can get away with the limited precision.

As for being a 'finished product', well, I have to say the ClassPad is wanting. Most of the bugs -are- critical, and the user interface issues cause significant delays in accomplishing my work. These problems have caused me to relegate my ClassPad to the status of a curiosity, a toy. It's fun to program, and to try to find ways around the limitations of the programming language. But for me, it really isn't suited for serious work.

Part of my disappointment in the ClassPad is how unfinished and rough it seems, especially when one considers the price. The problems, in my opinion, go far beyond the usual quirks one might find in a new product. Some seem like simple thoughtlessness.

The ClassPad is probably fine for the classroom. But the 'new technologies' embodied in this instrument seem useful nowhere else. And I'm no longer in the classroom.

I do like playing with my ClassPad. And, fortunately for me, I make enough money to afford such an expensive toy. If I had purchased it expecting to rely on it for my work, however, I'd be very angry.

I'll keep playing with it, and I'll certainly watch for new developments. But unless there's some serious changes made, I really don't see the ClassPad becoming the preferred tool of technicians or engineers working in demanding environments. I do hope it is successful in classrooms, so it makes enough money to motivate Casio to continue development.

And CrimsonCasio- I know about hitting EXE twice. I found that out by accident. But I also like to review several entries before I continue a calculation. My routine allows this, too.

[DrCoyote]

By the way, Nexus-

I tried the same program. I get a different result. My CrashPad crashes with the following message:

A fatal exception error occured.
TLB ERROR!!
TARGET=CB0DF4F8
PC=D003D338

Then it resets. So, don't feel alone.

Oh, and CrimsonCasio- I tried the on-off trick. It didn't help.

Whoops! Did I call it a CrashPad?

[SoftCalc]

I tried the same program.  I get a different result.

You might get a slightly different message but it's still the same bug. A crash doesn't anyways have a predictible result.

As far as the ON/OFF trick, I'm not sure why this isn't working for you. If you turn the ClassPad OFF, and then ON again, it will save anything stored in you ClassPad. It will not save the exact contents of the open application.

If you do have a crash you should be back where you were before the crash, but as if you had exited to the main menu. If you want to use this trick to save an open file you'll need to actually save the file first.

[SoftCalc]

These problems have caused me to relegate my ClassPad to the status of a curiosity, a toy.  It's fun to program, and to try to find ways around the limitations of the programming language.  But for me, it really isn't suited for serious work.

Your comment that the ClassPad is a toy isn't the typical response I've heard from professionals. I know of many engineers and scientists that love and use the ClassPad, and yes they use it for real work.

I actually prefer my MK-52 to the 49G.

The MK-52 is a calculator from the mid 1980s. There are many people that would consider this to be more a toy than the ClassPad. I'm not criticizing the MK-52, I just want to point out that your opinion is just that, and not the status-quo.

[DrCoyote]

Well, Softcalc,

If you read my posts carefully, I never called the ClassPad a toy. I said that, for me, it had been relegated to the status of a toy. Also, I never even insinuated that my feelings about the ClassPad represented the status quo. I was very careful to specify that these opinions were to be taken in the context of my personal needs. I'm not sure how to make these points more plain, really.

I'm really trying to be helpful in my comments. Perhaps I do not represent the status quo. Perhaps you've satisfied 95% of your target demographic with your present product. But I think Casio and Saltaire would do well to attend the comments of people like me. Another 5% would help everyone. Apple does a pretty darn good business with far less than 5% of the market share.

As for the MK-52, I'd agree that in terms of hardware, the MK-52, by comparison to the ClassPad, is a toy. But it's also RPN, and extremely easy to program. In my work, I often find myself performing a repetitive calculation that's nonstandard, exclusive to the piece of equipment I'm working on. I can accomplish what I need with a few keystrokes on my MK-52, where an equivalent program on my ClassPad (or my TI 92 Plus) would take several lines of code to write, and far more keystrokes (of stylus gestures) to execute. This is not to imply, in any way, that my MK-52 is more powerful than these other calculators. It merely points out that the MK-52 is better suited to my particular task.

If you like, I can list my own feelings about where the ClassPad falls short, and send them to you. But I get the feeling you?re really not interested in such.

The ClassPad is a remarkable product. It?s not well suited to my needs. Those would be my personal needs, not the needs of all those in technical fields. I hope this helps clarify things. It?s also rather buggy compared to other products in this class. I think this is evidenced by the very contents of this forum.

[betoe]

If you like, I can list my own feelings about where the ClassPad falls short, and send them to you. But I get the feeling you?re really not interested in such.

Well i thing Brian had made a very good work with the classpad software, he visit this forum and he had help us a lot. Post your suggestions in the classpad forum, there is a topic for that, i know they are working to make a better classpad software. Maybe we dont see the results fastly, it isnt easy, but i'm sure that in the next OS release there will be less bugs, etc...

I'm very grateful with SoftCalc, coz always i PM him or send him and e-mail, he answer me very fast and with the info that i need. The first time i wrote him, i asked for buy a classpad here in Mexico. I made a google search for the classpad, and i found "classpad.org", then i tried to talk with the webmaster (Brian ?Maguire?=SoftCalc), and he answer me very fastly. I had never received an email from casio and i was happy for that! If i remember correctly i post about that in this forum. I had tried some times with the Mexico casio distributor, and with some casio international sites, and they never answered me.

So be patient DrCoyote .

[SoftCalc]

"If you read my posts carefully...."

Yes, I read your post and I understand it completely. Statements like "... probably fine for the classroom...but useful nowhere else.", "...such an expensive toy. If I had purchased it expecting to rely on it for my work, however, I'd be very angry.", and "I really don't see the ClassPad becoming the preferred tool of technicians or engineers working in demanding environments." clearly indicate you think most professionals will not take the ClassPad seriously. I simply wanted to point out that this isn't the impression I'm getting from the feedback I've had from most professionals. This isn't to say every person is glowing over the ClassPad, but most professionals I've spoken with find it a valuable and useful tool.

"I'm really trying to be helpful in my comments....But I think Casio and Saltire would do well to attend the comments of people like me. ... If you like, I can list my own feelings about where the ClassPad falls short, and send them to you.  But I get the feeling you?re really not interested in such."

Of course I value comments. I'm an avid reader of this forum . Criticism can be a good thing and help improve a product. I'm always glad to hear any comments.

You can send me your comments, but I'm only a consultant. I think it would be great if you added any of your comments to the "Classpad Suggestions" topic. I enjoy seeing an open discussion and (although this isn't a Casio sponsored forum) posting you comments here makes your thought more readily available to Casio.

Don't misunderstand me. Personally I agree that the ClassPad can use improvement. Personally I wish the display had better contrast and it had more hard keys. I also think the interface should be designed so you don't have to rely on the pen. I'd like to see units. I'd like it if you could see an entire answer without having to scroll. I wish it did a better job of displaying complex numbers in both rectangular and polar form. I'd like to see an RPN calculator ....

BTW, I plan on developing an RPN calculator add-in. Let me know if you'd be interested in reviewing it for me

[DrCoyote]

Softcalc-

I don't seem to be up to the task of pubically posting my comments on the ClassPad without upsetting others, so I'll refrain from doing so. I do share many of your opinions when it comes to improvements needed, so perhaps it's best I leave it at that.

Now, for a positive comment. The ClassPad's implimentation of history is simply brilliant, in my opinion. I often need 'in progress' answers when working equasions, and often have to do the same equasions repetatively with different numbers. The way the ClassPad updates all the history from your edit point on down is a stroke of genius, and very useful to me. I wish other manufacturers would pick up on this idea. It is one of my favorite ClassPad features. As a matter of fact, it's one of my favorite features of any calculator.

As for reviwewing an RPN add-on, I'd like to see it, at least. So, if you'd like to send it along, I'd be grateful.

[CrimsonCasio]

Calm down you two , Critisims are always welcom of course... most of the discussion in the forum is critisims of one sort or another

the biggest "general" complaint I have with the classpad is that it takes to long to enter things. I think there could be several improvements to the keyboard to help with this, namely hitting a key then moving the pen upwards should capitalize things on the abcd keyboard (other such gestures would also improve things). also I want the => symbol on the main keyboard

anyway, everyone get along... or else... ( )

btw, what is RPN?

[Overlord]

reverse polar notation, example : 9+7 = ?

between 9 and 7, you make an addition
9 7 + >>> result : 16

7*(8+4) = ?
8 4 + 7 *

[CrimsonCasio]

it seems a bit confusing... why use it instead?

[Nanard]

I don't understand.... :-( I can't see any utility at this

@over: faudra que tu m'expliques en fran?ais ;-)

[SoftCalc]

I don't seem to be up to the task of pubically posting my comments on the ClassPad without upsetting others, so I'll refrain from doing so.

Sorry if I've been a bit defensive. Please don't take it personal, and please keep posting your opinions.

As far as RPN, it stands for Reverse Polish Notation. You write the operations like they are logically executed. For example...

(x+y)/2 x y + 2 /

Logically you need the two things are are going to add before you can do the addition. The really nice this is the RPN stack. Instead of the typical history it uses a stack to store intermediate operations. So for example, if you are entering...

[(1+2)*(3+4]/[(3+6)*(5+6)]

.. when you preform the "*" you can see both intermediate operands. Likewise with the / you can see the intermediate values for each * expression. I really like it when I need to see the intermediate values, and then later I want to use them in another calculation. Hmm, this is getting off topic isn't it...

[2072]

I don't own a Classpad but seeing all your complains about the lakes of the keyboard, I had an idea: the keyboard should have a programmable key where you could assign one or more (you could press it several times) command of the ClassPad, that would be very handful.

[CrimsonCasio]

frankley thats a great idea, though we've said it before
the (-) key should be replaced with a programable key as it serves absolutely no practical function. also, a custom user menu that is in all applications would be nice too...

[DrCoyote]

I have been working on an introduction to RPN, which I will post on the 'net. I'll post here when it is ready. I think the subject would be interesting to many calculator users, as well as those interested in computers and electronics in general. Those HP calculators that use RPN have a good introduction included in the manual. Elektronika manuals also have a lot of detail about RPN. My introduction will include a little history, and comparisons of the different implimentations of RPN that I'm aware of.

[Daruosh]

I think RPN is same PREFIX form of expressions. It used for faster parsing of expressions without many forwarding and backwarding in expression.

[DrCoyote]

Actually, Polish Notation is a prefix notation. Reverse Polish Notation, or RPN, is a -postfix- notation.

[qwerty841]

One thing to note, after using my ClassPad I can't see going back to an older technology calculator. Whenever I pull out my TI or HP I always find myself trying to tap the screen

Several times, i've tried tapping the screen of my ti-83 with my pencil. nothing happened, of course.

[Andy.Davies]

talking of touch screen phones, i have a P800, which has a touch screen and i have chiped it by using it with a ballpoint pen, when the pen was clikced 'off'