22 replies to this topic

[stndby]

i have got fx-9860g sd
but when i want to use deriative i cant get my choice
example: x2(square) must give 2x but it gives some numbers..
i think it must be from options but i didnt find anything about this deriative...
please somebody help me...

i have an exam..my last 10 days...

[huhn_m]

?! the 9860 is no algebraic calculator. It is not able to do symbolic derivates.
You can however put the limits and derive the function in the limits and get the value:

diff(x?.x,1,3) = 4

[TyYann]

Derivative for this calculator means the number, not the function.

[stndby]

this means "my problem will solve with algebra 2.0 ?????"
separately on this calculator's box writing
Algebra??? am i wrong ??
can u again reply???
ok my english not very well
i try to explain this question..

d/dx (x2) = 2x

its simple of course but the main think is this
is it deriative??? or how can i do this in my calc...

[TyYann]

Derivative means two things :

1- a derivative number written f'(a), which is the lim when h->0 of

(f(a+h)-f(a))/h.

This number is the slope of the tangent to the graph of the function f at the point (a, f(a)).

2- a derivative function which for any a of a certain interval, associates the number f'(a).

The 9860 gives you the number, not the function.
I don't know if algebra 2.0 can give you the function.

Sincerely, derivative functions are not the most difficult things to compute in maths, even if it can get intricate sometimes.

I would advise you to practice for 10 days by hand, which is plenty of time, instead of buying a calc you won't master enough in 10 days to be able to do your test safely with it.

This is actually a golden rule for calcs : you should know to do by hand what your calc does.

[stndby]

of course i know to do by hand.. i'm going to be engineer.. i must know of course..
my question not this..

my friend has algebra 2.0
he can solve anything about function with function..
i mean he can get function answers.. i'm a new user of this calc..
and i try to solve firstly the machine..ok??

i think only anybody know anything about it..if u dont know dont reply..
ALGEBRA FX 2.0 CAN DO FUNCTİON PROBLEM.. AND THE ANSWERS IS AGAIN FUNCTION..

thankss..
if anybody read my problem and CAN SOLVE IT .. please reply..

thanks again..

[TyYann]

?! the 9860 is no algebraic calculator. It is not able to do symbolic derivates.

Derivative for this calculator means the number, not the function.

The 9860 can NOT do it. That's what we keep telling you. There is no solution for your problem other than buying an algebra.

[stndby]

look what i want to tell is
this calculators box on writing
ALGEBRA

OK??
but why cant do algebric function ok??
thanks for all replies..

have nice dayss...

[The_AFX_Master]

Dude.. by the "N th time":

9860 G CAN'T DO SYMBOLIC CALCULUS AND ALGEBRA....

do you catch it?
if not....

9860 G CAN'T DO SYMBOLIC CALCULUS AND ALGEBRA....

The problem is that you dont know the difference between the symbolic derivative, and the evaluation of this symbolic derivative on a point X, to get the numerical value of the slope in that point
The only casio calcs that perform symbolic tasks are the AFX and the Classpad.

[stndby]

look MR..DUDE..
thanks..

but the topic was already finish..
you are late ok??
talk with your self..you will be happy..

MR..DUDE..

[huhn_m]

the topic is finished.

Don't be rude stndby.
We wanted to help you, you didn't understand what we meant.

If you do not even really know what symbolic derivates are and what they are NOT then you should seriously reconsidder the advise TyYann gave you

This is actually a golden rule for calcs : you should know to do by hand what your calc does.

Then you can come back and call people names. Get some experience on how to talk to people. There is a german saying "The tone that you shout in the wood with is also the tone it comes back out again".

Follow these advises or you will have difficulties in getting polite anwsers on forums. Has something to do with attitude I guess and with politeness.

[stndby]

look huhn m
my english not very well..i say this already.. and i learn what is meaning DUDE from your forums...
i'm already sign in more forums..but only in this site i see like this "DUDE" written things...
i'm not rude.. and i'm knowing HOW CAN I HELP PEOPLE..and I AM MOD IN SOME FORUMS .. I KNOW WHO I
MUST WARM FOR HIS TALK....

IF REALLY THIS "what's doing here is" DOING FOR help anybody...I CAN ONLY THANK YOU...
i only want to explain WHAT'S ON THE BOX WRITING ... algebra..
of course i know matematical terms..
but i dont know what they meaning in english... and this HELPER FRIENDS really really explain it to me..
how they explain if u can look neutral u can understand why i'm angry of this HELPER FRIENDS..

I ONLY GIVE AN ANSWER WHAT THEY SAY TO ME...
and there is a turks saying "NE EKERSEN ONU Bİ?ERSİN" i dont translate it to english because it can change real meaning in turkiye...but it must like

"WHAT DID YOU AFFIX YOU CUT UP IT"...i hope i translate it....

thanks for your forums REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL HELP...

[tutti]

You could make a program that derivated simple functions like ax^b + cx^d + ex + f... make it ask for each of the 8 variables, then output the result like abx^(b-1) + dcx^(d-1) + e... It'd go something like this.

"ax^b+cx^d+ex+f"
"a"?->A
"b"?->B
"c"?->C
"d"?->D
"e"?->E
"f"?->F
ClrText
1->X

A=0=>Goto A
Locate X,4,A*B
X+Int (log (A*B))+1->X
Locate X,4,"X^"
X+2->X
Locate X,4,B-1
X+Int (log (B-1))+1->X
Locate X,4,"+"
Isz X

C=0=>Goto A
Locate X,4,C*D
X+Int (log (C*D))+1->X
Locate X,4,"X^"
X+2->X
Locate X,4,D-1
X+Int (log (D-1))+1->X
Locate X,4,"+"
Isz X

Locate X,4,E

Lbl A

Split up into the calculation of each step. This will only work with whole numbers (no decimals) and positive numbers (no negative numbers). This is because of the log step, which is put in there to measure how much space on the screen the numbers use.

EDIT: After testing the program, I know it works perfectly

[stndby]

i really really thank you for your help.. i'm writing it my calc..
when i try i'll reply again..

REALLY REALLY THANKS..

[huhn_m]

A slightly more complex version:

"Summand Count"?->D
D->Dim List 1
D->Dim List 2
For 1->I to D
ClrText
"Summand "
"ax^b"
Locate 9,1,I
"a="?->A
"b="?->B
A*B->List 1[I]
B-1->List 2[I]
Next

1->A
2->B
1->I
ClrText
"Result"
Label 1
If List 1[I]=0
Then I+1->I
Goto 1
EndIf
Locate A,B,List 1[I]
A+Int (log (List 1[I]))+1->A
Locate A,B,"X^"
Locate A+2,B,List 2[I]
A+Int (log (List 2[I]))+3->A
A>16=>1->A
A=1=>B+1->B
Locate A,B,"+"
A+1->A
Goto 1
1->Dim List 1
1->Dim List 2

I didn't test this, but it should also work for any number of summands (only limited by the space on the screen.

[stndby]

yesss

thank you tutti...you are a perfect man..this is the solve...:D..

super...

but can we do this more contain.. like ln or sin or cos or tan or cot or most important e^3 (example) ...

but really thanks..this do my job in less minutes....thanks again..

[The_AFX_Master]

my english not very well..i say this already.. and i learn what is meaning DUDE from your forums...
i'm already sign in more forums..but only in this site i see like this "DUDE" written things...

First:
Don't make posts with a blank interleaving line.. you're wasting visual space
Second:
Upper case letters are shouting on internet
Third:
"DUDE" isnt an insult, bad word, joke, or so.. Is a pronoun used to call anyone.. learn english first, shout after
Fourth:
Your english have several leaks, Then, we found it hard to understand because we don't know what you need exactly. And, obviously, you can't understand us.. deriving on interpretation mistakes that makes you angry.

[tutti]

yesss

thank you tutti...you are a perfect man..this is the solve...:D..

super...

but can we do this more contain.. like ln or sin or cos or tan or cot or most important e^3 (example) ...

but really thanks..this do my job in less minutes....thanks again..

Yes, you can, though I think that'll take a lot more work, not something that can be thrown together in fifteen minutes. This program uses the fact that each part of the equation consists of a constant, a variable, an exponent, or a combination of those. It asks for the constants and exponents, and rearranges them in front of the variable and in the exponent.

Broken down, this is what the program does:

"ax^b+cx^d+ex+f"
"a"?->A
"b"?->B
"c"?->C
"d"?->D
"e"?->E
"f"?->F
ClrText
1->X
This part asks for input, after explaining what the input is. It also sets X=1, this is to make output start on the left side of the screen.

A=0=>Goto A If A=0, this jumps to the end of the program. This is because the logarithm would crash the program if A=0. The user is expected not to set B=0, so please don't do that.
Locate X,4,A*B (ax^' = abx^(b-1). This outputs the ab part.
X+Int (log (A*)+1->X Given that ab is an integer (whole number), this will tell the program how much room it took on the screen, so that further output can be placed accordingly.
Locate X,4,"X^" This is the x^ part of abx^(b-1).
X+2->X Again, sets the next output location.
Locate X,4,B-1 This is the (b-1) part of abx^(b-1).
X+Int (log (B-1))+1->X Allows the program to move output to the correct location again. If B=1 this will crash the program, but x^1=x, so use E (the ex step) for that when using the program.
Locate X,4,"+" The plus sign that goes between each step.
Isz X This works exactly the same as X+1->X.

Then the process is repeated for the next part of the program, since I included 2 ax^b steps. I will not comment on this, since it's the exact same process with different variables.

C=0=>Goto A
Locate X,4,C*D
X+Int (log (C*D))+1->X
Locate X,4,"X^"
X+2->X
Locate X,4,D-1
X+Int (log (D-1))+1->X
Locate X,4,"+"
Isz X

Locate X,4,E (ex)' = e. This makes e a constant.

F is derivated to be 0, and is thus skipped.

Lbl A

Now, more complex functions could be implemented... though as I said, it'd take more work to do, but the same basic principles still apply. From now, I will use capital letters for constants and variables, to avoid confusing them with functions such as sin, cos etc. You can take input in the form of Asin X, where A is a constant. This would be output as Acos X. Then you'd do the same for the following input types:

Acos X -> -Asin X
Asin BX -> ABcos BX
Acos BX -> -ABsin BX
tan X -> 1+tan^2 X
Ae^X -> Ae^X
A^X -> A^X * ln A
As for e^3, that's a constant. If you derivate it, you get 0.

Most of these shouldn't give you any problems - you ask for mostly everything that isn't an X or function, and then you move everything to the right place. If you know how to program your calculator, you shouldn't really have much trouble anymore. If not, you can look at the program I had up there, and build onto it by copying and altering the code that's there. Casio code is mostly really simple and does exactly what it says - Locate puts something on the screen, Goto jumps to any Lbl in the program, the arrow sets the variable it points to equal to whatever is said before it etc. You shouldn't have much trouble. Good luck

EDIT: As for the word 'dude', you can probably ignore it in most sentences, or just read it as 'you'. In most cases, this'll give the same meaning.

[stndby]

ok can i ask what is meaning dud ??

and i dont want to contunie this nonsense...if u dont want or cant help..you are not have to reply..thanks again ...master.. thanks...


tutti thanks you really thanks..

i'm learning how i can write program..i write very simple programs..but this information really suitable for me...and one question ...must i write it on my calc..i mean can i write it on my computer and send to calc...

i ignore it...i dont care anymore of it...thanks your help again.really thanks..

[2072]

just go to http://www.google.com and type define:DUDE

[The_AFX_Master]

LOL!... also you can try www.urbandictionary.com

[stndby]

ok.. you two .. super man in fact men... in this forum ok!!

can u be silent??