19 replies to this topic

[josephlo]

Hi

I am looking to get a Casio FX-5800P calculator, mainly for programming short calculations for my work in the office.

I would like to know how many lines of codes is this casio limited to? Is the 28,500 bytes memory limited in any way?

Would a FX-9860G Slim be better suited for programming since it has 63,000 bytes memory?

Thanks!
Joseph Lo

[verena]

Well, if you are just looking for programming short calculations, both calculators could be overkill.

The fx-3650P is aready a very powerful calculator for short calculations, where you just input one (or a few) numbers, calculate something, and output the number. It has seven memories, can hold four programs and 360 steps ("bytes") total of program content (instructions, I/O, memory reference, simple tests). It also has integrals, a "solve" functions.

The fx-4500PA holds more programs, has standard 26 memories (expandable, but you will have less program space) and 1103 program steps. It can also store and address a row (array) of numbers, the fx-3650P can't.

The fx-5800P looks like the most powerful non-graphical calculator, 28Kb bytes, differentials, complex numbers even more stuff you don't need for "short calculations".

And the 9860G-Slim is beautiful and fast, top-of-the-line graph calculator, but you may find that working it is not as easy as with the simpler ones I mentioned in the beginning.

If you happen to speak German, here is a nice comparison table:
http://www.casio-eur...hdatagesamt.pdf
You could also go to casio world and check these programmable scientific calculators:
http://www.casio-eur...ro/sc/standard/
Maybe the fx-50F is something for you, it already has a lot of formulas pre-programmed.

Regarding your question "Would the G-slim be better suited for programming...." - no , it just has more capacity, that doesn't mean it is better suited for programming. It can do more, but you should ask yourself, do I need a complicated graphical calculator to do simple calculations ?

The only reason to get an fx-9860G(-slim) would be if you want to connect your calculator to a PC to store your programs. All programmable Casios mentioned above do remember your programs and also the values stored in the variable memories.

Anyway, good luck picking one, and I'm sure that which ever one you get, you will be happy with it !

[josephlo]

Thanks for replying!!

So how many programs can the FX-5800P store?

For a 1 line statement like say A->1, does this count as 1 program step?

If this is so, then how many steps can the FX-5800P store?

Thanks!

[Xerxes]

The number of programs on the FX-5800P depends on the available memory (28500 bytes total).

This program takes 150 bytes for example:

ClrMemory
 8->R
 R->DimZ
 Lbl 0
 X=R=>Goto 4
 Isz X
 R->Z[X]
 Lbl 1
 Isz S
 X->Y
 Lbl 2
 Dsz Y
 Deg
 Y=0=>Goto 0
 Z[X]-Z[Y]->T
 T=0=>Goto 3
 X-Y<>Abs(T)=>Goto 2
 Lbl 3
 Z[X]-1->Z[X]
 Ans=>Goto 1
 Dsz X
 Goto 3
 Lbl 4
 S

[verena]

>Thanks for replying!!
OK

So how many programs can the FX-5800P store?
As many as you want. Each program name probably takes two or three bytes, plus the letters in the name, OR 16 bytes (I have seen both ways and don't know exactly - it should be in the manual, which is downloadable from Casio, at "support"). If it is 16 bytes per program name, you could store about 1700 program names. But there would be no more space for the actual programming

>For a 1 line statement like say A->1, does this count as 1 program step?
You probably mean 1->A, 1 (arrow to right) A which means "store value 1 in variable (memory) A"
No, it is one "statement" and it costs three steps (=three bytes). If your program contains additional statements, you also need a separator ":" or (enter) which is one more byte (step). Example: 3->A:A*2.5->B 11 steps total, this program stores 3 in A and calculates 7.5 and stores it in B. (where "->" is arrow key, one byte.)

>If this is so, then how many steps can the FX-5800P store?
28Kilobytes according to Casio, in practice it should be about 16,000 steps. Maybe it says in the manual. It also depends if you expand the memory for storing numbers - suppose you want it to remember 300 numbers, it will probably take away 3000 steps from the program space.

>Thanks!
OK !

[josephlo]

Thanks for all the replies. You guys have been very helpful.

I will order the 5800P then

[ECE]

Hello verena,

Example: 3->A:A*2.5->B 11 steps total, this program stores 3 in A and calculates 7.5 and stores it in B. (where "->" is arrow key, one byte.)

3 (one step)

->(one step)

A (one step)

: (one step)

A (one step)

* (one step)

2.5 (3 steps)? Explain please.

->(one step)

B (one step)

>If this is so, then how many steps can the FX-5800P store?
28Kilobytes according to Casio, in practice it should be about 16,000 steps. Maybe it says in the manual.

One byte for each step correct?

28*1024=28672 bytes. Then there must be 28672 steps not 16000 steps.

Are there other factors to be considered in calculating memory space?

I'm also interested in 5800p, this is why I need the answers.

Thank you.

[verena]

>One byte for each step correct?

Yes, 2.5 is three steps because the program memory remembers it as three separate characters: 2 . 5
Once it is stored in a variable, it will take 10 bytes.

> 28*1024=28672 bytes. Then there must be 28672 steps not 16000 steps.

Casio tends to exaggerate a bit for instance an fx-7400Gplus says "32 Kb", but in practice only 20000 steps is available to the user. Therefore I subtracted 12 kb from the 28 Kb. It's a rough estimate. Maybe they are right now, and it is 28Kb user memory.
Check the manual, it should say in there.

[ECE]

Thank you for the explanation, one last question please;

2.5 is three steps because the program memory remembers it as three separate characters: 2 . 5
Once it is stored in a variable, it will take 10 bytes.

It will take 10 bytes. Does it depend on the number of digits stored or it takes 10 bytes what ever the number is?

Regards.

[Xerxes]

There are 26 predefined variables A-Z for storing real or complex numbers
independently from the 28500 bytes.

To have additional variables the DimZ command is used. The memory occupied
for n->DimZ is 26+12*n. 10 extra bytes are used, if a complex number is stored
to a DimZ variable.

The header of a program needs 35 bytes and a file name can be up to 12 characters
long. Every character, digit, function, command or separator in a program needs 1 byte.

Interesting is the possibility of connecting two FX-5800P for backup of important
programs and data.

It's a very nice and powerful non graphing calculator with an excellent high contrast LCD.

[ECE]

thank you Xerxes,
verey impressive calculator. What is the estimated price of fx-5800p?

[Xerxes]

About 50 ? at www.dynatech.de

[ECE]

thank you very much

[josephlo]

I was advised that the FX-9860G is 64K in memory size and is better than the FX-4800P in terms of memory storage capacity. Furthermore, I was told that the FX-9860G has a 1.5MB flash which we can offload unused programs in the memory space to flash and vice versa.

If this is true, why don't we get a FX-9860G instead of the FX-5800P?

What about the FX-9860G SD version? Is this a better calculator than the FX-5800P?

With the nos. of programs I am intending to write, I can forsee that the memory storage requirement will quickly exceed FX-5800P capabilities.

Comments please?

Thanks.

[ECE]

I agree with you josephlo, but in some universities they don’t allow graphic calculators to be used in the exams.

Fx-9860G SD is a powerful fast calculator, personally I’m using 2GB SD memory. This is more than enough for me.

In fx-9860G you can develop programs in C-language (very powerful) using the SDK found in casio educational site. Also the Operating System is upgradable, that means your calculator will become better every time casio release an update (I’ve updated 2times with minor improvements).

I don’t know about fx-5800p is it comparable in speed with fx-9860G?

If you don’t have the restriction mentioned above, fx-9860G or SD version is great choice.

Regards.

[Xerxes]

@ josephlo:
To be on the safe side, take the FX-9860G SD (SD-Card Slot) or the FX-9860G Slim (Backlit LCD).
It's much more powerful than the FX-5800P. If the power of the FX-9860G is not needed, the FX-5800P
is a good choice as well. The other models were already described by Verena in post #2.
It's important to know what you want to do to be able to choose the right calculator.

@ M.Yasser:
If you want to compare the speed, have a look here for a float test: http://www.leningrad...c/speed_eng.php
or here for an integer test: http://www.hpmuseum....es.cgi?read=700

[josephlo]

Several questions pertaining to the FX-9860G and FX-9860G SD version:

1. Does the 1.5MB on-board flash of the FX-9860G work the same way as the SD card (as in the FX-9860G SD) in that you can only store programs on this memory? We would have to first copy programs from the 1.5MB flash (and/or the SD card) to the main memory space (i.e. 64kB space) on the calculator in order to execute the programs. Is this correct?

2. Say I have 100 programs. These are obviously too large for the 64kB memory and I would be forced to offload some to the 1.5MB flash/SD card. How would I offload them? Do I just do a simple copy command or do I need to execute a "backup" or something? Is it simple to recall programs in this 1.5MB flash/SD card?

3. Would a 2GB SD card be helpful to a FX-9860G SD? What can you store in it, apart some addins and programs which we have written?

Thanks

[ECE]

@ M.Yasser:
If you want to compare the speed, have a look here for a float test: http://www.leningrad...c/speed_eng.php
or here for an integer test: http://www.hpmuseum....es.cgi?read=700

Very impressive, I?ll try to understand the basses on which the test is build on. For example why 1.0000001^2.01 is used, 1.0000001*1.0000001. what is the idea ? why do you repeat it 27 times?


From where the algorithm came from?

This test attracted me very much!

Thank you Xerxes .

[Xerxes]

@M.Yasser:
Sorry, but I don't know the reason why Sergei has choosed this kind of float test but I guess the interger test is well known.

@josephlo:
1. Yes.
2. With the help of the built-in memory manager you can save your programs on flash or SD and of course load them back in a easy way.
3. I have the FX-9860GSD only for collecting, so I havn't enoght experience to give you an accurate answer.