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Classpad restrains.


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#1 MauritzTortoise

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 08:19 AM

I bought I Classpad 300 this summer, but was rather dissapointed when I found out that one could not define functions as enything else than ?macros?, i.e. one can not use commands in a funktion definition. That means that one can not, for example, use the statistics commands in function definitions. This I see as a rather artificial restrain.

The fact that the statistics functions is implemented as commands is another such strange restrain. All in all I found the machine full of such stupid things. Why can one not start programs from the main screen? Why is the use of the Classpad Manager restricted in time?

In the end I changed the Classpad for a TI-89. In that calculator one can write functions using almost any command and functions as for example ?If Then??, ?While?? and so on.
All in all I must say that the TI-89 is such a more flexible calculator. Sadly I must say so, because the Classpad seemed to be such a nice machine, with the touchscreen, more memory and fast execution times.

I have used a lot of other Casio Calculators, The FX-850 the latest 15 years, and I has been verry satisfied with that calculator. What I, at first, missed the most whas the Function Memory, but I wrote a small program to emulate that on the TI-89 :). I hoped that the Classpad should be an equally good experience, but allas.


:( <_<

#2 TomL_12953

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 08:31 AM

I agree totally. I use a lot of string functions in most of my programming but have to rewrite everything to suit the 300's odd string manipulation. That, coupled with the dim screen is enough to turn me off the ClassPad for good. It's going on eBay soon!

Tom L :angry:

#3 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 08:54 AM

hold onto it for a while, this is the first time we have ever been in contact with casio, mabey we can get some changes for the better.

I think you may have misunderstood the use of functions, they are math, not programming functions (Y=2X). to do a programming function just make a new program and treat it like a function, you can even use prameters, ex: myfunct(var1,var2,var3)

if you have any questions about what the classpad can and cant do just ask, I or someone else (SoftCalc) will be able to answer, and we may be able to tell you why it cant. in some cases mabey it could be added (I dont know, I'm speaking hopefully :) ).

PS, why does everyone say the classpad has a dim screen, I dont think mine does :blink:

#4 Overlord

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 10:48 AM

:unsure: what is a "dim screen" ? i don't understand...

#5 MauritzTortoise

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 11:59 AM

CrimsonCasio wrote "I think you may have misunderstood the use of functions, they are math, not programming functions (Y=2X). to do a programming function just make a new program and treat it like a function, you can even use prameters, ex: myfunct(var1,var2,var3)".

Hm. I know the functions are "math functions", but a lot of math function may include conditional statements e.t.c. If I write these as "programming functions" I get the answer as a written output, or I may get the answer returned In a variable, but if I want to use it as an ordinary function? Suppose for example I want to define a function for the incomplete gamma function,

ig(a,x)= a lot of code, including if, then.....

Why should I then not be allowed to use it in a calculation like ig(50,2)+ig(1,2)->x ?
What is so "nonmathematical" about that?

Ok, a question, how do I solve the above in the simplest way, i.e. write a function or program for easy use fpr for example the incomplete gamma function? (And don't say that I should find an aproximation for the incomplete gamma that does not include if's, when's and so on, because suppose the simplest aproximation simply have to have these kind of commands, or that the function is included, but I have not seen it. Suppose it is a function, not included and which requires commands.).

By the way, for me a function is something that has a input and gives an output, f(x)->y. The way it?s internaly done is less inportant. If a calculator knows how to calculate NormPDF, why should it not be possible to use that value in a definition of a function????

#6 betoe

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 01:37 PM

Why is the use of the Classpad Manager restricted in time?


Thats so right, I think that Saltire must realease a patch to make a non limited classpad manager use, it wuould be good that we e-mail to Brian (the guy of www.classpad.org) to tell him this.

#7 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 02:30 PM

MauritzTortoise: ok, the thing about not being able to do inline functions is anoying, you could do exactly what you say, its just harder... that one is something to talk to casio about.

Its a weekend, so I probably wont hear from them till monday.

#8 MauritzTortoise

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 04:13 PM

Thank you for a nice answer (most Casio/HP/Ti "fans" won't ever admit that their loved brand has a flaw). I have read some of the heated TI-89 v.s. HP49g debate, wich for most parts miss the goal..... :rolleyes: .

I hope these problems can be solved because I found the Classpad a nice machine in a lot of respects, for example the nice way to input expressions in pritty print and the fast 3D-graphing (maybe twice the speed of TI-89).

#9 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 21 September 2003 - 05:29 PM

oh, you will never find a bigger critic of casio than me, you should have read some of the comments I've made before... one of the main reasons I've stayed with casio is because my hobby is making calcs do things weather they want to or not... its just too easy on the Ti's... that, and a few other things, are why I like casio, but I have already sent them a list of things that I saw needed improvement in the BASIC language.

I honestly think the ClassPad is a huge step in the right direction for casio, and for the first time they are listening to what people like you have to say. Example: I wrote casio about a bug in the classpad manager, and they have actually fixed it, its going to be included in the next release. also, they are sending me a new ClassPad because I have gotten some errors they cant reproduce, so they asked to look at mine and they are sending me a new one.

also, though I went through a 3 week conversation with casio tech support about what a classpad was and did they sell it ( :hammer: ), Brian M at Saltire (webmaster: www.classpad.org) was extreamly nice and actually got me in contact with an offical casio representitive, and now things are getting better and better, they are working with us this time instead of aginst us. :)

PS, if you look at the Return function on the classpad, it appears to have been meant to accept a value since it automattically adds a space if you select it form the menu. perhaps casio took this out for some reason...

Edited by CrimsonCasio, 21 September 2003 - 11:01 PM.


#10 Lovecasio

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 12:26 AM

The user defined function in "Real Classpad" cannot contain any command (include If..Then, While... and carriage return), but I found that the Classpad manager I download in the Internet can contain them.
Ex: Lets make function gt
Parameter: n

Local i,kq
1=>kq
For 1=>i To n
kq*i=>kq
Next

That is possible on the manager, but impossible on Classpad.
Why?

#11 betoe

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 01:12 AM

they are sending me a new ClassPad because I have gotten some errors they cant reproduce, so they asked to look at mine and they are sending me a new one.


They will do a classpad warranty? Your problems were by a software error? Do you send your classpad to them and they check the error? (ok, i will stop here, they are many questions for today :P ).

#12 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 03:22 AM

we arnt sure what the problem is, thats why they want to look at it... as for the thing with the manager, it doest quite work like that, if you use those functions it does not save the file, try it and see.

#13 SoftCalc

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 02:50 AM

Why is the use of the Classpad Manager restricted in time?


Thats so right, I think that Saltire must realease a patch to make a non limited classpad manager use, it wuould be good that we e-mail to Brian (the guy of www.classpad.org) to tell him this.


Of course Saltire can't do this. They work with Casio so they can't hack the Manager. ;)

#14 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 02:55 AM

yeah, I probably should have mentioned that you have to pay for the full version of the manager since it is a emulator for the classpad... it also hasnt been released yet. I'm waiting to see what they charge, if its not to much I'll probably get it (just to be able to run my progs faster), but otherwise no, I'm not that eager to buy something twice.

Personal Opinion: it should be included in the price of the classpad, the limited version should be a way for people to try out the classpad before buying it, thats what I did. (I, and some others got it off a german site before the classpad was released)

#15 betoe

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 03:40 AM

it should be included in the price of the classpad, the limited version should be a way for people to try out the classpad before buying it

Crimson you may work for Casio graphic calculator's creators, you have better ideas that these guys.

#16 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 06:03 AM

Thanks, but they have there reasons, plus I have worked for my dads company testing software before and I've seen how big companys work, its like watching a game of grapevine (if you havent played it: everyone lines up, the person on one end wispers something like "potato" to the next person who then wispers the same thing to the next person, almost every time the last person will anounce something like "Phil hates you" as the phrase that got wisperd to them, then everbody laughs and tries to figure out who changed it...repeat)

what I'm trying to say is that they have good ideas, the classpad and AFX are proof of that, but not all of it is getting from one place to another. for example, the Classpad's # operator could actually let us do object oriented programming (BASIC++ :D , hey... that actually fits...), yet they left out something as simple as a yes/no dialog... if they can get the idea through to the right people then they could make a great calc, I'm just afraid that they will keep with the casio tradition of making everything backwards compatible with all similar calcs... though I think the Program area could be patched like the Cas and Algebra on the AFX were, or (if posible, i forget if it is on the classpad) they could make available an upgrade for the ROM.

I'm still waiting for a response from casio about my suggestions, maybe Brian will help me out with that ( :) he tells me he was a hp calc hacker once...), I know that I would do anything casio needs me to if it means improving their calcs, and I'm extreamly happy with all the progress that has been made recently, its almost a dream come true compared to before... I'm just hoping I dont wake up suddenly ;)

by the way, later I intend to post a rather lenghty topic on all the uses of the wonderful # command :lol:

#17 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 08:00 PM

I just got my new classpad from casio with a personallized copy of the manager update :D . I'll send mine to them today or tomarow.

#18 Andy.Davies

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Posted 25 September 2003 - 11:11 AM

why did they give you a new class pad? just to upgrade the manager? surtely it would be easyer to just give you a new OS to transfere...

#19 CrimsonCasio

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Posted 25 September 2003 - 12:24 PM

they gave me a new one so I could send mine to them so they could test it, the manager was on a CD that came with it.

#20 Guest_kayaIstanbul_*

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 01:28 PM

PS, if you look at the Return function on the classpad, it appears to have been meant to accept a value since it automattically adds a space if you select it form the menu. perhaps casio took this out for some reason...



ClassPad 330 User Guide - page: 12-6-13

"Syntax: Return {<variable>}
...
Appending a <variable> to the Return command in the main application and executing the command will cause the variable to be displayed when the program is complete.
"

I thouth that Return command can be used for a program to return a desired value as an output. I tried but it doesnt work in any way.

#21 Kilburn

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 02:00 PM

Nice way to bump a 5-year old thread with a totally irrelevant reply, smart guy.

#22 Guest_kayaIstanbul_*

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 02:23 PM

Nice way to bump a 5-year old thread with a totally irrelevant reply, smart guy.

In this forum there were messages about the usage of Return command as I quoted... and I need a solution. 5 years or 10 years, it doesnt matter. Do you suggest a solution?

#23 Kilburn

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 02:35 PM

Actually, it does matter because the Return command wasn't fully implemented until OS v.3.0., it couldn't "return" values, because programs couldn't be run in the Main application.

Plus, you don't need a solution because there are many other ways to transfer a value through several programs. If you really need it, try this old add-in I made years ago for going through the limitations given by functions: http://www.classpad....hp?id=229&cat=3
Or you can be smarter and try this, which has made the built-in programming application totally obsolete because of its superiority. http://www.casiocalc.org/?showforum=19




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