286 replies to this topic

[CrimsonCasio]

MM is a poltical satirist you know
and hes anything but unbiased.

[2072]

MM isn't a satirist, he tries to denounce things not to make laugh of someone. Some part of F911 are funny but most of it is sad...

[CrimsonCasio]

i thought you had read his books! of course he's a satirist, thats the excuse he uses to publish his books and not get sued. (im not kidding, hes on record as saying that)

now i know f911 wasnt intended to be satire but all of his books are (well, mabey not the new one).

[Bob Vila]

i thought you had read his books! of course he's a satirist, thats the excuse he uses to publish his books and not get sued. (im not kidding, hes on record as saying that)

he has also said that he would sue anyone who made fun of him

MM is a poltical satirist you know
and hes anything but unbiased.

yeah, i heard him say that himself on leno one time

[2072]

So is not always a satirist... (I didn't read his books), I only saw his movies and he don't make fun of anyone there.

[CrimsonCasio]

the point im making is that MM has always previously been a satirist, and hes well known for saying compleatly un-true things then later claiming them to be humor. Then he makes a movie (lets say for argument purposes that it is 90% true) which is not supposed to be satire. to me that says two things: 1) he is trying to make people thing his books are as true as his movies, and 2) he's just capitalizing off of disaster and turmoil.

[huhn_m]

I think for most it is plain what in his ooks is satire and what is not.

I think he wants to show the wrongs in your society by showing off the problems in a funny way but he does NOT intend to lie about the figgures. Because this is no satire but lying. If you doubt the truth of F911 check the "Fact Backup" at www.michaelmoore.com

[CrimsonCasio]

i already told you, for the purposes of argument were treating F911 as 90% true, which is probably more than it deserves but since i havent been able to watch it my self im giving it to you. Now the books are a diffrent matter, he's been being called out on those for a long time and escaping by saying "it was just a joke".

in reality he's a propagandists who will use any amount of truth and lies to make you join his side. Now huhn, im speaking "propaganda wise" from a almost nutural position, i listen to Hannity on the raido and like what i hear, i listen to Michel Savage and think he's probably insane, if i could get Moore on the radio or TV and hear his side I'd watch/listen to it. and I have listened to allen colmes debate aginst hannity several times (he hasnt won yet in my opinion) and even once hannity wasnt there so colmes turned it into the liberal hour and I still watched it. basically what im saying is, have any of you ever gone and read or watched something aginst moore or kerry. how about "Fernhype 911" or "Stolen Honor", the fim that kerry and his supporters are trying so hard to suppress that they almost bankrupted a brodcast company that was trying to be non-partisan (the company offered kerry equal air time as the movie but he refused), they then sued the crap out of them and their stock prices dropped nearly 200 points... its things like this that make me absolutely HATE john kerry, he so obviously hasnt read the constitution or the bill of rights which gives americans freedom of speach, cause he'll do anything to keep people from saying bad things about him.

[2072]

Still no comment about my links?

The problem isn't to know if Kerry may have done bad things when he was 25... Almost 40 years have past you know. It's just stupid to juge a man for something he (maybe) did when he was 25! "Stolen Honor" is just a foolish film.

Anyway even if we were able to proove you that Bush IS the Devil, you'll vote for him just because you don't want to vote for Kerry... That's a stupid behavior

in reality he's a propagandists who will use any amount of truth and lies to make you join his side.

About the "lies" in F911, MM always proove what he says in F911 (you should watch it), at the time he made the film he didn't have all the information we have now, if only 90% is true and 10% are partially true, the most important is that 90% of the film IS true.

MM didn't make me join is side, I already had my own opinions about Bush & Co.

I did not watch a lot of things against MM, bud I did read your links, and I admit that MM isn't right about several little things and that he used easy means in F911 (Mother crying, Iraqi children mutilated by american bombs, etc...) but he had to: is goal is to convince not to proove he is right, most of non-american already knew the most part of F911. The problem is that Bush isn't a good president and never will and that anyone else would be a better one (except Bush & Co. of course).

its things like this that make me absolutely HATE john kerry, he so obviously hasnt read the constitution or the bill of rights which gives americans freedom of speach, cause he'll do anything to keep people from saying bad things about him.

He is right to fight about stupidity, he doesn't need stupid lies (probably) to ruin his campaign. And you know Bush & Co. would have done the same if F911 didn't win "la palme d'or" at Cannes festival (F911 curiously had no distributors...)

How can you still think that Bush is a reliable president, that doesn't make sense!

Btw, I just saw a documentary about your voting "computers" in Florida... They are completely bugged (must run under windows Me), there are no written trace of someone vote so a recount isn't possible. Since the last election, nothing has changed...

[huhn_m]

MM didn't make me join is side, I already had my own opinions about Bush & Co.

same for me ...

in reality he's a propagandists who will use any amount of truth and lies to make you join his side

and bush is not?

Some interresting facts that were in a report about the white house on german TV yesterday ...

*Bush does not read the newspaper (sad for a president)
*The people arround him are advised not to give him to many things to read because he won't read it anyways
*Buhs is the first president (I think they said since lincoln) who does NOT allow external advisors and bases ALL of his decissions on the information that the small circle arround hime gives him (Wolfowitz / Rice / Cheney) There is usually no other opinion heared since all of the do always have the same opinion.
*A historican said that NEVER was the fact that you clamed worlds domination as clear as now.
*Ms. Rice even said that "The american way us the only ways that works for ALL people of the world" [not exact quote but from the sense the same]

And THIS is the president you want? You must be insane ... no president in a democratic european country would be accepted if he acts this way ... he would be out of office with light-speed...

(btw. Nazis also claimed that our way was the best "Am Deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen")

[CrimsonCasio]

so you were already biased to begin with? where did you get these opions from?

bush is a president, not a propagandists... now part of being a president requires looking good, but bush does that just by being himself and not having a "public persona"

*neither would I, the media in our country is horribly biased aginst him.
*i think thats probably taken out of context at least.
*heh, bush came into office with one of the most impressive teams ever brought to the white house, when my dad voted for him last year he commented that he didnt particularly think bush was that great but his team made up for plus more.
*well, he's a quack, like a historian would know anything about the present now other than his own oppinion based off the same bad information you have.
*you seem to have mis-understood this statement or purposefully taken it out of context, what she is saying is that the system under which we function would work just as well in every other country and solve a lot of problems in those countries... i agree.

hahaha, of course he wouldnt, and thats your problem. you'd elect the scum of the earth over a honest man. and you say MM simply didnt know the truth when he lied in F911, thats simply crap he purposefully distorted as he always does, and in addition you acuse the president of lieing about WMDs and he has proof he didnt know there wernt any and proof that there was cause to believe there were.

about the voting machines, i dont know what all is up with them, but for some reason a judge ruled that they didnt have to leave a paper trial in case of a recount, that seems like trouble to me because i have absolutely no doubt that the democrats will protest the election and basically crap on our system, because kerry (and CO) has no respect for the country at all.

[2072]

so you were already biased to begin with? where did you get these opions from?

We simply know the truth... Contrary to americans we are interested about what happens outside of our country. So we have an objective point of view.

*neither would I, the media in our country is horribly biased aginst him.

We do not defend people like Bush. It seems you don't have all the information we have...

*heh, bush came into office with one of the most impressive teams ever brought to the white house, when my dad voted for him last year he commented that he didnt particularly think bush was that great but his team made up for plus more.

They did quite a job indeed...

*well, he's a quack, like a historian would know anything about the present now other than his own oppinion based off the same bad information you have.

So any information you don't have is wrong? Anyone who don't share your point of view is wrong?

*you seem to have mis-understood this statement or purposefully taken it out of context, what she is saying is that the system under which we function would work just as well in every other country and solve a lot of problems in those countries... i agree.

Personaly I don't think your system works so well.

hahaha, of course he wouldnt, and thats your problem. you'd elect the scum of the earth over a honest man.

???

and you say MM simply didnt know the truth when he lied in F911, thats simply crap he purposefully distorted as he always does,

Well you seem to know MM very well for someone who didn't want to watch his movies...

and in addition you acuse the president of lieing about WMDs and he has proof he didnt know there wernt any and proof that there was cause to believe there were.

Poor little Bush he is very unlucky
If only he had listen to UNO...

about the voting machines, i dont know what all is up with them, but for some reason a judge ruled that they didnt have to leave a paper trial in case of a recount, that seems like trouble to me because i have absolutely no doubt that the democrats will protest the election and basically crap on our system, because kerry (and CO) has no respect for the country at all.

Well your law says that when the vote result are too close, they must recount manually which is impossible with the voting computers.

One day the voting computers counted 144000 votes the only problem was that there were only 5000 persons who did vote that day...
Another bug: sometimes the display is corrupted and instead of the candidate name you see "xxxxx", so some people don't even know for whom they voted... What an exemple for the greatest democracy in the world!

[2072]

Campaign cites "security reasons" for blocking access to Bush site ouside of North America:

http://news.netcraft..._bush_site.html

http://news.netcraft...s_visitors.html

[dscoshpe]

Just wanted to throw out there that every voting district is responsible for buying their own equipment so if certain parts of Florida have problems it is their own local issues. My district in California has been using voting computers for a while, the last time I voted I checked it out pretty thoroughly. The ones we use are made by Diebold (who also make ATMs) and they accept what seems to be a flash memory card, similar in size and shape to a regular credit card. When I show up to a poll station, my identity is verified and my information is encoded on to this flash card. I then walk to a computer and insert the card and proove my identity. Then the voting happens page by page, and I have noticed nothing out of the ordinary. When you are finished you hand the flash card back to the pollers and they confirm you completed it. I was told that when the poling ends there is a function for printing a written record. The machines themselves are about the size of a modest LCD monitor and are touchscreen. There is a small slot in the top where the flash card is placed.

The only problem I saw with the entire operation is that I didnt get any money back when I was done...

But that is in my district....

- dscoshpe -

[huhn_m]

*you seem to have mis-understood this statement or purposefully taken it out of context, what she is saying is that the system under which we function would work just as well in every other country and solve a lot of problems in those countries... i agree.

You seem to have misunderstood ME. This is exactly the truth ... and exactly what the communists said when you accusted them that they wated to rule the world. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. If you'd know A LITTLE anout the systems and cultures outside of your country then you would see that this is not true. I think the British already know this
because of their experience.

*i think thats probably taken out of context at least.

I'm sorry to destroy your beautifull puicture of Bush but it is not.
He said exactly this in the interview and you could hear that the sentence was neither cut in the end nor at the beginning. If you don't believe it it's your problem.

you say MM simply didnt know the truth when he lied in F911, thats simply crap he purposefully distorted as he always does, and in addition you acuse the president of lieing about WMDs and he has proof he didnt know there wernt any and proof that there was cause to believe there were.

I didn't say MM didn't know the truth. Btw the things that were not correct in his movie are irrelevant to the facts that were. How does it matter if a newspaper article is on the front age or not?

Yeah he had reasons to believe this ... the main would was probably the oil industry.

From your opinion I notice that you either belong to the richest 1% of americans who had a really good time under bush or to the huge amount of citicens who do not care at all about the situtation in other countries. I don't know if the books of Peter Schoell Latur are translated into english but he is a really intelligent person when it comes to the region iraq and afghanistan (the people). Read him. YOu could see that the politic that your president says would save you from terrorists does in fact the contrary. It build hatred and aggression against your people.

If you don't see this then don't wonder when the next terror attack happens ...

Maybe you'll attack the next country then ... btw. what I hearded about the situation in your country is horrible. I heared that a democrat would not dare to glue a "Kerry" sticker on his brand new mercendes because it would be scratched then ...

So much to the "Free World" with "Unlimited Opportunities".

Then I dreamed of living in the US one day ... I don't think I want to in the US that is now.

just my 0 cent

[CrimsonCasio]

i got to say im so very sick of this... im convinced i cant convince you (your minds were already made up) so there's no real point to arguing... still i'll probably feel more optimistic tomarrow and try again...

for now, just think on this: Bin Laden just released some video's (proving hes alive), in which he actually quotes MM (not exactly, but he uses nearly the same words and exactly the same meaning)... how i feel about MM: i want him to be hanged... how i feel after i calm myself down a bit i think he should be exiled to afganastan and see how he likes it. im really fed up with this crap if you cant tell. bush will win and the democrats will accuse him of stealing the election and the uninformed masses will hate bush and not care that he does a great job (which he will) and then he'll be out of office and we can repeat the process with another president... in my current mood i dont even want to live in a country with people like MM and Kerry...

im gona go read a couple books and take a break from reality.

[2072]

how i feel about MM: i want him to be hanged...

[CrimsonCasio]

unfortunaly its true, but its not just him, if you want a moore accurate approximation of how i feel about him and people like him think of how you would feel if someone cut you off in traffic, making you nearly crash and then gave you the finger (american insult) as they went by, then, additionally a cop pulled you over for recklass driving as you tired to survive this encounter... it seems to me like america and other countries are suffering great injustices at the expense of these people and thats what really pisses me off, not so much the debate... just the people that feed off this kind of turmoil... while i think most of them are on the side of more i know there are some on bush's side as well... all of them make me sick equally and i think the world would be better off without them (or with them exiled to afganistan...)

theres an old quote about "first, kill all the lawyers", well, mabey it would be better to start with the polititans.

get what im saying?

[2072]

think of how you would feel if someone cut you off in traffic, making you nearly crash and then gave you the finger (american insult) as they went by, then, additionally a cop pulled you over for recklass driving as you tired to survive this encounter...

I don't understand why you feel that... Do you think that all accusations against Bush are wrong and that he is just a poor victim of his bad luck and lack of intelligence?

- grandfather Hitler's banker - bad luck
- strong busines relations with Ladden family - bad luck
- Controversy at his election where his campaign director was also election supervisor - bad luck
- spent 9 months ignoring terrorist threat - bad luck
- 9/11 - bad luck
- bomb afghanistan and let Osama escaped - bad luck
- Ignor UNO and start a war in Iraq for invisible WOMD - bad luck
- Multiple tax cut for richest - bad luck
- Patriot act restricting honest citizen freedom - bad luck
etc...

Even if all of this is just bad luck, I wouldn't vote for such an unlucky president...

Those who hates Bush are not evil, they just fear for the future of their nation... Have you ever wondered why the majority of american artists hates Bush? Artists are known to have a better understanding of human kind and society than the average man, you should listen to them, it's their job to understand the world!

[CrimsonCasio]

lol, dont know where you got that oppinion from, but i think an artist job is to show his/her view of the world, not understand it. and i have no idea where you got this artists hate bush thing... i personally know an artists (he's quite good too) that is voting for bush and absolutely despises kerry.

and no, i wasnt talking about acusations aginst bush or anything like that, im sure some of them are true to one extent or another, but im being more general here. Im saying that i hate these people (on both sides) because they thrive on human conflict and suffering... the people im speaking of are obvious in a group (at least to me), they may be sociopaths, i dont know what motivates them really, but they are the scavangers of mankind and i think they are eating us alive (in a metaphorical sense )... thinking about it I believe that Rush Limbal (sp?) is in the same catagory as MM, and he's a republican.

these kind of people just make me sick, and when one of them runs for president and another is held so high it just makes me very depressed.

edit: thinking about it, i do know why most artists (if thats true) dont like bush, you see, much like our media (and yours it seems) many colleges these days have staff that teach liberalism to students, and there is a reason why the "Liberal Arts" are called that...

[2072]

lol, dont know where you got that oppinion from, but i think an artist job is to show his/her view of the world, not understand it.

Well that's my own opinion maybe: to show his/her view of the world an artist have to understand it at least in a personal way... Else he/she cannot show anything.

and i have no idea where you got this artists hate bush thing...

That's what I heard...

http://www.recirca.c...tnews/347.shtml
http://www.pen.org/monde.html

[2072]

because they thrive on human conflict and suffering...

Seeing MM films I can't even imagine he is doing this for money... if only you had watched some of his movies,you'll understand what he wants... Did you see "Bowling for colombine"?

[CrimsonCasio]

heh... money isnt always a factor, i think he wants fame (or infamy i some cases). he lossed any credablity that i though he had when i heard a lady tell how he had personally offered her and her friends (who work in the pharmacutical industry) $5000 to appear in his next movie and say a list of things that are supposedly wrong where they work. they wouldnt do it, they had more credability than him.

[huhn_m]

no directly connected to the other statements:

1) F911 is gonna be on german TV tomorrow (so I think it's too un US TV)
2) 2072 I can't open your links so here some cites from me

Everyone who waves his hand to a blind one like Stevie Wonder, like Bush did, has some screws missing in his brain

Lowering Taxes for rich quys like me? - thats criminal

George W. Bush has the intelligence of an Egg timer

If you look at Bush closely he is, in fact a big commedian and always the one for a laugh. But he also is a good example for the fact that Tragedy and Comedy lie very close together from time to time

Since the attacks of September Eleven our democracy is endangered - thorugh a politic of fear and hatred

I'm gonna vote because eveyone is better than Bush. It is frightening what we do to our environment and how things in Iraq are developing towards the worse

*These are not exact quote since they were recorded in Englisch, translated into german (till there they might have been exact) and then translated into english again by me (sense & content are the same for what I understand of the language )*

[2072]

he lossed any credablity that i though he had when i heard a lady tell how he had personally offered her and her friends (who work in the pharmacutical industry) $5000 to appear in his next movie and say a list of things that are supposedly wrong where they work. they wouldnt do it, they had more credability than him.

Maybe she was offered $10,000 to tell that in order to descredit him...

[CrimsonCasio]

you know that both those posts are sad dont you? this is exactly the kind of tin im talking about. huhn, you've quoted some of the stupidests people in america, people that live off there looks and have years of training in _not_ thinking... when you start turning to celebrities for advise you've hit a reall low. 2072, first off you obscure what is basically an eyewhitness report with pure conjecture... i mean, you could say that about every person that has ever said anything improtant (then you'd really be living in a dream world). second, its not the first time something like this happend.

[2072]

2072, first off you obscure what is basically an eyewhitness report with pure conjecture... i mean, you could say that about every person that has ever said anything improtant

That is not impossible at all, if it works in one way it can in the other too, how can you proove she was not lying?

An article about what you said: http://www.californi...5&classcd=CL103

where it is not said they were asked to lie...

By the way, you didn't answered to my question: did you ever see/read any MM film/book?

[2072]

My district in California has been using voting computers for a while, the last time I voted I checked it out pretty thoroughly. The ones we use are made by Diebold (who also make ATMs)

I just saw another documentary about them, and it's Diebol who makes the bugged one used in Florida...

Some links about this great piece of 'computer':

http://www.scoop.co....0307/S00065.htm

http://www.linkcrusa...te_machines.htm

E-Vote Machine Flaw Could Prevent Any Florida Recount
http://www.commondre...s04/0613-05.htm

btw Diebold is one of the donators for republicans.


And already 58,000 votes already disappeard in Florida! Jeff Bush is doing a great job (most of these vote were presumed for democrats)!

http://www.granmai.c...9/45estrat.html

"In Florida 600,000 former felons, mostly Black and Democrats have been permanently excluded from the electoral register." - no comment -




http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/3960679.stm

[Bob Vila]

well, i'm back.
i dont have enough time to make a long post right now cause it's been a really long day, and i might have to make another trip to SLC tomorrow

about MM,
last week, when i was traveling down to my grandma's house, i was listening to NPR and they were playing the moore's speech that he gave at UVSC. and i don't know how you guys can stand to listen to that fruitcake i turned him off after 20 minutes because he was just spewing B.S.
but i did enjoy this little bit of speech here when he wasnt getting a rise out of anyone...

Don't you guys have class or work to do or something? Um, don't we have some more tape to roll???

not his exact words, but pretty close

and about republicans suppesing the vote (what 2072 is getting at), the govenor of Pennsylvania (democrat) was taken to court so that he might be able to give the military an extention on their voting since they sent out the wrong absentee ballots. he refused, until sean hannity (and most all of penn. for that matter) chewed the crap out of him. and this is the same govenor that is trying to give prisoners the right to vote he even informed the wardens of this

btw, in f-9/11, why did MM make a big deal saying that the whole media was trying to silence the military and how much they hated the war (pretty much MM's own words) but over 75% of the military is still going to vote for bush?

btw2, my brother in law and sister went to a Bush rally in toledo, ohio. they said it was pretty cool

[dscoshpe]

About the Diebold machines, I read the Scoop article and the model we use must be different because there is no remote access involved at the poll station level, maybe higher up in the process (I wouldnt know how that works) but it is substantially different than the one they described. Like I said, our 'ballots' are really flash cards. There is no transmission that takes place as there are no means for it (my station is in a garage in the neighborhood). We have had our system for a while so it might predate the ones in the article. In any event, Im not arguing against the possibility of voting fraud, just pointing out my experience.

So it has been decided that Kerry will win the election (apperently) so everyone can calm down...

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=1913509

- dscoshpe -

[2072]

Oh, yeah, he's going to win. It's guaranteed," said Packers safety Darren Sharper, a Kerry supporter. "I don't have to vote now. Don't even have to go to the polls. Saved me a trip on Tuesday."

[huhn_m]

@Bob:

F911 was on German TV last night and will be this night again ...
It is sad that you do not watch this movie ... it would show you
who and what your Bush is.

Please watch it. Simply watch it. You can take for granted that at LEAST
95% of the information are accurate and the rest are small differences.
I ean DOES it really matter weather the Saudis invested 1.2 Billion or 1 Billion?

I can only hope that Kerry will win. Unfortunately he will be the one who must clean up the mess so you'll hate him. But I think he is better for the world. (and for the US)

btw, in f-9/11, why did MM make a big deal saying that the whole media was trying to silence the military and how much they hated the war (pretty much MM's own words) but over 75% of the military is still going to vote for bush?

So 25% of the military is voting AGAINST their commander in chief.
And if you count the parrents of all the soldiers in iraq they make a huge number too.

in F911 moore asked the senators whether they want to send their children to iraq. He offered them together with a marine) information about this and said that they should be the first to send their children to war. Noone said OK (of course.. only the poor ones must suffer for your war-lust)

I don't understand your argument about repsublicans surpressing the vote. So it's ok because the democrats do other things that are not ok. What a sad opinnion ...

*irony*Long live the best democracy in the world*/irony*

May all of you, who drive your poor children into war burn in hell.
How can you insane ppl. justify a WAR with good. You have learned NOTHING of history (though bush should have. He studied History at Jale).

May you all get drunk in OIL!

[Chani]

Wow, there's a lot of negative energy built up in here. Maybe we should feng shui thigs up a bit. [smile] We need more yellow in here!

Well, I voted today. Now we'll just see what happens.

[huhn_m]

Wow, there's a lot of negative energy built up in here.  Maybe we should feng shui thigs up a bit. [smile]  We need more yellow in here!

Well I can help you there (I hope )

[Bob Vila]

Please watch it. Simply watch it.

nope. i have never watched an R-rated movie, and i'm not going to start with this one. and why should i go watch this movie if you guys are unwilling to read books by sean hannity and rush limbaugh. you wont even listen to them. why should i show you the same courtesy?

I can only hope that Kerry will win. Unfortunately he will be the one who must clean up the mess so you'll hate him.

i aleady hate him. and no, he will not be better for the US, might be for france and germany though.

How can you insane ppl. justify a WAR with good. You have learned NOTHING of history

i am not insane. i do not like war in general, but sometimes there is no other way.
i do not really care about the oil or not (as a matter of fact wasnt it the french and the germans trying to lift the sactions on iraq so that they could trade straightout for iraqi oil??? interesting...) i dont really care if halliburton or anyone gets rich off this war (i could care less if french oil companies got rich off of it (my dad works at one)), the main reason i support the war is that saddam hussien was a very evil man. he was gassing, shooting, and rapeing his own people. do you guys remember how he got into power? he killed almost everyone in the gov't. and you guys are trying to lift the sactions on him to give him more money so he can build the WMD and kill some more of his people, and possibly more americans? thanks guys.
and since you guys love the UN so much, why dont you care if someone has been breaking its laws for over a decade and you still wont do anything about it. if the laws arnt enforced, what good do they do? (i think it was more of a if you give us oil, we'll let it slip just this one time, kind of a deal). and we're the oil greedy ones, riight.
btw, since bush has been president, we have liberated 50 million+ people from tyranny and oppression. kerry will stop all progression we have made in the war on terror, and terrorists will go unckecked throughout the world, much the same as they did during the clinton administration.

(of course.. only the poor ones must suffer for your war-lust)

war lust? that is the dumbest thing i've heard all day. you couldnt care less if guys like saddam hussien kill people, but when americans try to liberate the people saddam is killing, you guys act like we are the bad guys.
the poor? what are you talking about? thats like saying that everyone in the military is poor or has poor parents? that is really the dumbest thing i've heard all day (not to mention the most biased).

So 25% of the military is voting AGAINST their commander in chief.
And if you count the parrents of all the soldiers in iraq they make a huge number too.

if you want to take it that way, 75% of the military is voting against kerry. btw, last i checked, the soldiers in iraq are part of the military, so they will be counted in that poll. what MM dosent point out is that alot of parents of soldiers still support the war in iraq (a majority i believe).
MM talks about how we should talk to the military to get thier opinion, well, you have it. btw, veteran voters feel mostly the same way. bush has a large lead in those polls as well.

Edited by Bob Vila, 02 November 2004 - 07:28 PM.

[2072]

nope. i have never watched an R-rated movie, and i'm not going to start with this one.

Well you should start with this one, it's better than to start with a stupid horror movie. In F911 you're just confronted to the reality of the world you live in...

and why should i go watch this movie if you guys are unwilling to read books by sean hannity and rush limbaugh. you wont even listen to them. why should i show you the same courtesy?

Since our behaviour looks stupid to you, why are you doing the same?

The fact is that we have so many proofs from so many different people, to read books by two biased persons seems to be useless to us, there is no way they could change our mind. We do not fear the truth like you do...

i am not insane. i do not like war in general, but sometimes there is no other way.

Well in that case there was... And Iraq wasn't a threat to USA.
Btw, why did "Bush the 1st" didn't remove Hussein in 1991? He could had finished the job... He must had some good $ reasons.

the main reason i support the war is that saddam hussien was a very evil man. he was gassing, shooting, and rapeing his own people. do you guys remember how he got into power? he killed almost everyone in the gov't.

For sure but Bush didn't make better than him, he bombed innocent Iraqi people. In 1991 Hussein was left in power and Iraqi people suffered an embargo since then...

Hussein wasn't the only dictator you know, there are a lot of country where dictators are worse than Hussein. Why Bush The Great did nothing about them? Oh, I know, they do have WMD...

Bush never said the purpose to this war was to free Iraqi people, it was to protect America against a threat. That's the problem. The fact that Hussein was removed is just a consequence not an achievement!

and you guys are trying to lift the sactions on him to give him more money so he can build the WMD and kill some more of his people, and possibly more americans? thanks guys.

not the sanctions on him but on his people so they can have a better life that's slightly different...

Now we have the proof that he did cancel is WMD projects in 1991 when he invaded Coweit, he was more interested in money than in bombing USA. That's why there was nothing to be found in Iraq.

and since you guys love the UN so much, why dont you care if someone has been breaking its laws for over a decade and you still wont do anything about it. if the laws arnt enforced, what good do they do? (i think it was more of a if you give us oil, we'll let it slip just this one time, kind of a deal). and we're the oil greedy ones, riight.

USA are part of the UN you know...

btw, since bush has been president, we have liberated 50 million+ people from tyranny and oppression.

And killed some thousands, handing over the rest to anarchy and terrorists attacks for maybe decades...
Plus Bush cultivated hatred against your people and so new terrorists attack against the USA.

kerry will stop all progression we have made in the war on terror, and terrorists will go unckecked throughout the world, much the same as they did during the clinton administration.

How can you be so sure about that? And I don't think Bush made any progress in the war on terror, on the contrary, instead of spreading love feelings about America he is spreading hatred as new terrorist seeds. When will you understand that evil cannot defeat evil?

what MM dosent point out is that alot of parents of soldiers still support the war in iraq (a majority i believe).

If you'd watch F911 you'd know that MM shows familly supporting the war... Unfortunately, because of your pride you'll never know...

[2072]

Some stupid quotes from rush limbaugh taken on his website: http://www.rushlimba...otes.guest.html

"The idea that so many Jewish people in America could end up voting for John Kerry because of a misunderstanding about George Bush... If you have any question about who's going to be more sympathetic, do you realize that France almost embodies the new European anti-Semitism? France, where it's effervescing, is iJohn Kerry's favorite ally?

France doesn't embodies anti-Semitism, it just our stupid media that emphasis any little actions of some stupid neonazi in Alsace, less than 10 "anti-semitism" cases have been reported, but each one start a scandal. And so since French are said to be anti-semit then Kerry who likes France is anti-semit...

"It's obvious that the left in this country, the Democratic Party, despises George Bush. They have a seething rage and a seething hatred for George W. Bush -- and so does Al-Qaeda, as does Osama bin Laden. Is it really so surprising that the rhetoric of the far left would be picked up? It's damn close to verbatim in this bin Laden tape."

So since Bin Ladden said some truths about Bush already said by the democrats then democrats are like Bin Ladden... Very clever!

That kind of quotes doesn't encourage me to read his books... :/

[dscoshpe]

Update: My district isnt using the electronic machines this time, I used a simple black pen and paper ballot this year. Go figure.

I voted Kerry. Of course, I live in California which should go to Kerry anyways. For the record, Im a registered republican.

I can break down my decision later if anyone was interested, but now its time to go to work...

- dscoshpe -

[Chani]

@ huhn: Tag! Wie gehts? Heute bin ich m?de! aber alle ist gut. Ich glaube, dass jeder hier b?se ist. Stimmst du ?berein? Beautiful flower, btw!

I tried posting in yellow, but you couldn't read it.
@2072:

If you'd watch F911 you'd know that MM shows familly supporting the war... Unfortunately, because of your pride you'll never know...

Now that wasn't very nice, was it? Let me explain this to you. My family and I are practicing Mormons. As such, most Mormons choose not to watch rated R movies. Now are you criticizing my brother because of his religious beliefs? If you do, you'll get a hell of a lot of pain from me. I am a practicing Mormon, but human and not perfect. I have seen F911 and do not agree with what you have said. Everyone has an opinion pal, and everyone is being very closed-minded and biased (God forbid, you or anyone else is biased! As far as I know, everyone is biased, pal) about this. Now, are you going to sit there on your butt and argue more about those you don't like, or are you going to do something productive about it?

Now, what productive things can you do? Well, arguing here isn't going to change anyone's mind, we've all proved that. So go write a book. Start a website about how much you hate us, and maybe you'll get a bunch of people that agree with you. Be active in your government. Write to your leaders. But don't you dare criticize my brother and call him prideful because he actually has the guts to stand up for his beliefs.

Durch Kritik schlie?en Sie Ihr Gem?t; das gleiche Ding, das Sie Amerikaner von kritisieren.

[Chani]

this is bob--
sorry guys, but bush wins again