165 replies to this topic

[hellas1]

Hey all,

It looks like no one here owns the Classpad 330!

What da' heck?

Nevertheless, Why did YOU the Classpad 300/300 + owner buy that instead of TI's TI Nspire CAS?

comments please,
hellas1

[kucalc]

Well, the ClassPad 300 series of graphing calculators still have more features than the TI-nSpire as of right now. TI-nSpire can't do polar or 3D graphing and programming is still limited

[hellas1]

Hi kucalc,

Thanks for your response. It doesn't look look like many people have bought the Classpad 330. Oh well.

Ti's TI Nspire CAS can't do differential equations and has no financial apps to speak of either.
It does have more memory than the Classpad 330 however, which is THE only thing going for it, aside from smoother looking graphics. I've researched the TI Nspire CAS to death.

The Nspire and the Nspire CAS are different in that the Nspire has either a TI 84 or 84+ snap on keyboard making it compatible with 84/84+ apps. The CAS does not and is not compatible with 84/84+ apps.

My greatest concern are the following: a text reader (to read e-books) and engineering programs & e-activities for the Classpad 330.

I've ordered the Classpad 330 already and I really do want to find a text reader for e-books or an e-book and definitely want a mechanical engineering suite (program) & if possible e-activities centered around mech. engineering.

Can you direct me in finding a text reader & mechanical engineering suite?
I'd appreciate it.

Regards, hellas1

[kucalc]

I'm just answering here since I own a TI-nSpire CAS.

However, I'm pretty sure there is some text reader laying around.

[hellas1]

Hi Kucalc,

I didn't mean to disrespect you at all, if that is what your response to my last post was. I apologize.

Not having much money, I just wanted to make sure I made the best purchase for myself & my needs.

Thanks for your input again,
hellas1

[kucalc]

There was no disrespect at all. It's cool. I think there is a bit of misunderstanding...

I wasn't disappointed at your post, however just a bit disappointed that I don't have a ClassPad to help you out and couldn't answer your questions. I wasn't trying to cause any damage to you or was any harm given to me. Just sharing my experience with the TI-nSpire since that's the only calc I have out of the two being compared.

[hellas1]

Hi Kucalc,

Thanks! My Classpad came in yesterday at my girlfriends' house but I can't go there until tomorrow (Friday.)

To compare the Nspire to the Classpad 330, just download the Classpad manual from Casio's site.

The main issue with the Classpad is the memory and on screen resolution seems to be jagged.
The Classpad offers more programs that the Nspire, even though the memory is quite lower.

Take care, I'll let you know how it really looks resolution wise.
hellas1

[kucalc]

Ok, cool.

Tell us about your experiences with the ClassPad when you get your hands on it.

[hellas1]

Hi Kucalc,

I have my Classpad 330 with Software version 3.03 on it.

It's quite a different "feel" when using a light pen to touch functions on a screen for me.
I find it to be cool to be able to use a light pen, along with dragging equations and auto graphing them.

What a charm of a product though! Well built, lots of functions, and quite fast indeed!
For me, this offers more functions than the TI Nspire CAS, although the Nspire CAS does have more memory RAM & ROM wise.

I don't know about the 3.03 "bug" for laplace/fourier whichever it was, posted in the "Bugs" thread.
I think I'll email them if no one else did!

Well worth the money and forget the Nspire CAS!
hellas1

[kucalc]

Well, congratz on your purchase. Glad to hear that you are satisfied.

I too also agree that the ClassPad 300 is a better purchase than the TI-NSpire. The TI-NSpire is just really limited, has more memory but kind of useless since you can't really do much on it.

[junior]

and i want to ask that which calculator´s CAS is better, i read that nspire has a nice CAS and step by step solution. you can see step by step here;

http://education.ti....i...2&topid=350

and read this; "The classpad CAS isn't up to the one used in nspire (Derive)" TRUE? here; http://forums.whirlp...fm/1279639.html


i mean i want to buy one of them and classpad is firstly a casio, and nspire does not seem like a calculator for me, better like an amiga console about it´s colour and shape , but a good CAS is important also, and a step by step solution is very important, that lack even in a hp50, so i want to make a good decision

Edited by junior, 25 December 2009 - 07:03 PM.

[ASTRO491K]

The HP CAS is more powerful than the Nspire as well. Try this 999^400 on the Nspire and you will see it return infinity while the HP will give you precise answer which is huge by the way. The classpad also has problem on that.

If you are a student, my recommend is to get a Ti-89 over the HP because the HP is batteries eater and hard to use. A new set of batteries drains out in a few weeks. The Classpad is touch screen device so it's forbidden in exam. The Nspire will make you look suspicious due to its awkward looking. The Nspire cannot give you step by step by the way.

HI,
I'm impressed with your knowledge of calculators and their capabililties. I have been using the TI-89 and TI voyage 200 calculators for almost 5 years and want something better. I am disappointed in the TI-nspire cas and won't buy one for many reasons. Also, I have an HP50g but it is difficult to get used to, so I am considering the purchase of a Casio. Could you tell me please if the Classpad is the best and most powerful Casio calculator? Also, what is the difference between the Classpad 300 and the 330 and which should I buy? I am an engineer and not a student so do you think I would find the Classpad be a an improvement compared to the TI-89? Thanks.

[ASTRO491K]

All "flag ship" calculators have pros and cons. If you are engineer, I suggest you buy a copy of Math software, such as Mathematica, Maples or Mathcad. If you want something portable, an HP 50g or Casio casspad 330 is great choice. I can't comment much on the Nspire since it's new and in "development". But after all, if you are to pack up everything and leave in an isolate island where you have to start the human spices again, I would say bring a casio classpad 330 with you because it's the best feature-power wise at the moment. You can go to the HP site to update your HP 50g firmware. They have released version 2.15 which supports connection a device I forgot what's it called. The CAS supposedly is more powerful than the previous version (2.09), but it has its own bugs. The original authors are no longer develop the CAS for the HP 50g.

In my opinion, The HP 50g is at its end of life circle. 7.5 points for its powerful CAS
The classpad is half life circle perhaps? 8 points for its powerful CAS and easy to use. I think the casio CAS is as powerful as of the HP 50g, however, Casio keeps releasing new OS every year which make me gave it 8 points.
The Nspire CAS and Ti-89 T got 7 points. One thing to keeps in mind that most people thought the Ti-89 is the same as the Ti-89 T except for less memory but that's not true. The Ti-89T can solve inequality. The Ti-89 T is also considered end of life circle to me.

Thank you for the reply. I use Maple for serious work but like to use a calculator for quick solutions to easy problems because of the convenient instantaneous start up time that calculators have. (Note however that the nspire calculators don't start up quickly.) In any case, I agree with you that the HP50g is at the end of its life cycle and soon, when sales drop to some unprofitable level, I think that Hp will stop making their HP50g and no longer be in the calculator business. Hp obviously decided years ago to stop investing in calculator development and innovation, but I never understood why. In your opinion why did they do that? Now with the nspire/nspire cas models TI has made a minimal investment in that development so I expect that TI has also set a course that will eventually take them out of the calculator business. Canceling Derive would seem to confirm that TI is planning to get out of the calculator business. I wonder why TI has decided to go in the same direction as HP and get out of the calculator business? What do you think?

[ASTRO491K]

My Nspire starts up pretty fast, as fast as a scientific calculator. As stated above, I think the reason they discontinued Derive was because they didn't code Derive themselves but purchased it from a company. Thus there might have been some contracts about profit-shared that making them stop selling Derive but build their own version of CAS to get 100% profit themselves.
The CAS right now in the Nspire CAS is from the Ti-89. Google for 100 bugs in the Ti-89 and you can reproduce them in the Nspire (not on Derive however) that proves my theory. In other words, the Nspire CAS on Computer is weaker than the CAS of Derive. But consider the new Nspire line, I think they are catching up. Consider the old Ti-89 with low processor runs their CAS engine just fine. Why would they bother put on a superior hardware on their Nspire to run the same engine? I think it's for the future. They are making a more powerful engine in a near future which will require the power of the current Nspire hardware. Hopefully Ti will catch up with Casio soon.
I personally don't think HP will withdraw from the calculator business though. Many times, people thought the HP 50g would die but it didn't.

Regarding the death of the HP calculator business, it will surely happen because HP doen't have anything new to replace their aging product, and I think the reason they havn't developed anything truly new and innovative, is because they have a marginally profitable operation. Surely that is why they let their designers go and without experienced calculator designers it's difficult to develop a new and innovative product, so they have no future without a big new product development investment by the corporation which is not likely in the near future.
The following information was posted on the google nspire site about the boot time for the TI-Nspire CAS v1.7.2741:
"The boot time for the calculator varies on the amount of data stored on your NAND Flash ROM.
The more space your documents take, the longer it takes for it to load.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:03:76 >> Loading File System and Operating System
00:00:03:76 - 00:00:16:93 >> Loading UI and Settings (w/ clock/waiting cursor)
00:00:16:93 - 00:00:22:22 >> Loading Documents (w/o clock/waiting cursor)
00:00:22:22 - 00:00:48:62 >> Finished"
Perhaps your nspire is not a cas version and boots instantly.

With the nspire/nspirecas, when you take a close look at those designs, they simply repackaged the TI-84 and 89 with a few superficial changes. For example adding the ability to store notes without providing a spell check is a superficial improvment. Additionally, 3d graphing for the TI-89 is very weak so for nspirecas, insteading of strengthening this capability, TI took the cheap route and eliminated 3d graphing. That is a very troubling sign and signals that TI is not going to produce an up to date cas. I think the reason for going to a faster processor was not to upgrade their capability which they don't need with the present cas, but simply because of availability problems with the old processor. Another thing to look at is the limited programability for the new nspires. That again signals that TI is not going to put out the development money to do the job right. Clearly they hope they can get away with the limitations of their new designs by concentrating on the high school education market. In that regard, none of the teachers that I know have any interest in the new TI nspire products, and if those products don't catch on soon, and have to be cancelled because of insufficient sales, then TI like HP will be selling obsolete products until that demand falls off to an unprofitable level and then be out of business.

Casio seems to be the only company aggressively doing calculator development but if the competition from TI stoped there would be no reason for Casio to do further development either. Then customers will turn to math software on inexpensive netbook pc's and the era of the dedicated math handheld will be over. Just my opinion. What do you think?

[ASTRO491K]

Something that I left out of my previous post is that the people at TI, until the nspire/nspirecas release, hadn't produced a truly new product in over a decade. They just made minor changes to existing products and that means that their design skills are obsolete and explains the incompetent nspire/nspirecas effort. With obsolete software that doesn't even do an adequate job of 3D graphing, along with black and white screens, and the lack of built in battery chargers, clearly the new nspire and nspire cas products are obsolete 1990's designs. If TI doesn't soon develop a truly state of the art 2010 design that the customer will want, then they have set a course that will result in their exit from the calculator business.

[ASTRO491K]

Ouch! The google nspire site has a post from a teacher who wants to sell a used class set of 30 nspire cas calculators. Since the nspire product line was designed specifically for teachers, it's not a good sign when a teacher wants to get rid of these products. I think TI is going to have to make some changes that make their nspsire line more desirable, and do it soon or stop making them. If you are inclined to buy an nspire or nspire cas, you might want to wait and see what happens. Just my opinion.

[DrCoyote]

A lot of the latest posts on this thread are opinions and conjecture, which is fine. We all have a right to our opinions, and a diverse pool of opinion and thought is a wonderful and productive thing. However...

Ummm... What's all this about the Ti-Nspire taking a long time to boot?

[ASTRO491K]

A lot of the latest posts on this thread are opinions and conjecture, which is fine. We all have a right to our opinions, and a diverse pool of opinion and thought is a wonderful and productive thing. However...

Ummm... What's all this about the Ti-Nspire taking a long time to boot?

Ummm... yourself. The information is available at the google nspire site at:

http://groups.google...32f27ab61e444c7

Go down and read the 8:22Pm post for Oct 3.

[ASTRO491K]

Ummm... yourself. The information is available at the google nspire site at:

http://groups.google...32f27ab61e444c7

Go down and read the 8:22Pm post for Oct 3.

I want to apoligize for the brisk nature of the previous post. I dashed it off without thinking and that was rude. The google groups teachers nspire site referenced, is well respected and provided a discussion and data that prompted the post here. I have no reason to question the integrety of the people who post at that site, and because no one there questioned the data either, I assumed it to be correct. Then someone suggested a video clip shows otherwise. I didn't know what to think and wondered if perhaps bootup time was edited out. Then I forgot the matter and moved on. Now I am uncertain and I would appreciate it very much if you would read the discussion and posts at the site I referenced and clear up the matter. Thank you.

[ASTRO491K]

Here is some additional information that will hopefully clarify the situation. According to the Ti-nspire and TI-nspire CAS getting started guidebooks that apply to software version 1.7, automatic power down and hibernate can change your power "to extend your battery life."

By default, the system automatically powers down after three minutes, and after two days your system will hibernate. (You can change these settings.) These booklets also say that "When you hibernate, the system saves your current work in memory. When you turn the handheld on again, the system will reboot and open your saved work.

In additon, according to Nelson Sousa at the google nspire site that I previously referenced, and whom I consider to be an expert on Npsire and Nspire cas calculators, "as for boot time: if the unit isn't in hibernate mode, its instantaneous; if not it should take roughly one minute, maybe less."

So the key to understanding the boot up time is in knowing if the unit has been off long enough to be in hibernate mode or not. If the unit is hibernating boot up will take roughly a minute, otherwise the unit will boot up immediately, and this applies to software version 1.7 which I believe is the latest version at this time. Hopefully this will clear up any confusion.

[DrCoyote]

Exactly. If you use a Ti-Nspire series calculator for your daily work, boot time is effectively zero. If you leave it off until it hibernates, (two days by default) it will take longer to boot. But if you use it for your daily work, you will never encounter this. If you don't use it often enough to prevent encountering hibernation, you can adjust this time to up to 5 days, or disable the feature altogether.

TI-Nspire's hibernate is similar to 'Power Save' on the ClassPad. The ClassPad's power save mode is adjustable as well. You can set the ClassPad to wait up to one day before entering this mode, or disable the feature (as of version 3.04.3000 of the OS).

It does take longer for the TI-Nspire series to come out of hibernate mode than it takes a ClassPad to come out of power save mode.

There was no confusion on my part. I have used both the TI-Nspire and TI-Nspre CAS for several months now. I was just puzzled why 'boot time' was being given such emphasis in this thread. Both the TI-Nspire and the ClassPad 'boot' instantly if used daily.

You've done a lovely job of clarifying the issue, by the way.

Edited by DrCoyote, 06 January 2010 - 07:10 AM.

[ASTRO491K]

You've done a lovely job of clarifying the issue, by the way.

Thank you DrCoyote. If, if... ...hm-m-m. I should have emphasized that the whole point of hibernate, and its resulting long boot up time, is to extend battery life. So if you disable hibernate, or set it so that you use the calculator so often that hibernate doesn't kick in, you are unnecessarily buying batteries more often.

So I have a question for you Mr. Coyote and it goes like this. My tooth brush has rechargable batteries and a battery charger. I have had it for about 4 years and never had to by a new battery for it. My electic shaver has rechargable batteries and a battery charger. I have had it for several years, I use it daily and never had to buy a new battery for it. My cell phone has rechargable batteries and a battery charger. I have had it for 4 years and never had to buy a new battery for it. My old lap top has rechargable batteries and a battery charger. I have had it for 6 years and never had to buy a new battery for it. My new netbook computer has rechargable batteries and a battery charger. I anticipate that I will have it for years and never need to buy new batteries for it during that time. So the obvious question is this. Why should I or any one else have to constantly buy new batteries for a new calculator design? Why does a new design use the ancient technology of throw away batteries? Is it so that TI can make an extra dollar by not supplying an ac cord for recharging?

Now let me share some of my thoughts with respect to nspire calculators being new(?) designs. The TI-83/84 calculators don't handle irrational numbers. They just substitute appproximate decimal answers. Mathematically that is a big deal. For example 1/sqrt(2) + 1/sqrt(4) is returned as an approximate value instead of the exact value of sqrt(2)/2 + 1/2). Compare that to the new nspire, which TI has had about a dozen years to work on. The problem is still there! In fact, if I neglect pie charts as being trivial, and the ability to store notes (without a spell check by the way) as not being a math capablity, what are the significant new math capabilities that nspire offers? It Is(!) a math device, right? And what is that limited programing nonsense all about?

Next, when I compare the nspire "cas" model to the decade older ti-89/v200 calclulators, in addition to the limited programing, I notice that 3d graphing which by most accounts is weak on the 89/v200 calculators of over a decade ago, has not been improved at all. They simply eliminated it! So when it comes to really important stuff like math capability and updating the technology to 21st century standards by using color screens, and built in battery chargers, and enhansed 3d graphing along with the non-cas version working with irrational numbers or at least warning the user that the result returned is not an exact answer, I don't see where the nspire/nspire cas designs have anything new to offer at all. Yes, the nspire designs come in a bigger package with a different shape, but what are the new and improved math capabililties? Maybe Laplace transforms? No. Seems to me that TI simply put some lipstick on the same old designs and added more spin.

Final questions Mr. Coyote: What is so inspiring about a 12-15 year old cas in a new package that as a hand held doesn't measure up to other 21st century devices like cell phones? If we strip off the spin, the question boils down to this, "what significant new math capability would I get if I throw away my Voyage 200 and buy a new nspire cas?" None that I am aware of, and actually I would be worse off because I would loose the little bit of 3d graphing that is available on the older model. On the other hand, if I throw away my Voyage 200 and buy a new classpad 330, what significant new math capability would I get? Well for "starters," I would not loose 3d graphing, and I would also get things like Laplace transforms. So to answer the question posed by this thread, Classpad Vs. Ti Nsplre: which is better folks? Obviously the Classpad is. And I would go further and say that the older TI calculators are also better than the new nspire/nspire cas designs.

To wrap this up, I sincerely believe that TI has used a flawed strategy of providing only what some high school math teachers want in a calculator, and doing it at the lowest cost, dispite the reduction in quality (such as color vs. B&W screens), and that in order to get sufficient sales volume TI will eventually have to redesign and provide features that the broader market wants, or ultimately they will be forced into cancelling the nspire products as competition takes its toll. Furthermore, it would surprize me if Casio doesn't take advantage of the situation by introducing an improved classpad, that like the iphone, stuns the competition with its superiority. Lastly, if someone from TI reads this post, I am sure your reaction will be that it really doesn't matter what this guy thinks, because our focus is in providing educational products for teachers. Such a reaction would be very interesting because I am a math teacher.

[DrCoyote]

My goodness.

I only wanted to clarify the question of long boot times on the Ti-Nspire. I'm not sure what brought all that on.

Please, enjoy your ClassPad.

[ASTRO491K]

My goodness.

I only wanted to clarify the question of long boot times on the Ti-Nspire. I'm not sure what brought all that on.

Please, enjoy your ClassPad.

Just trying to be helpful. This thread asks: Classpad Vs. Ti Nspire: Which Is Better Folks?, Casio or TI?
I assumed you were here seeking an answer to that question.

[ASTRO491K]

[quote name='JBB' date='Jan 6 2010, 10:59 PM' post='48451']

Perhaps your evaluation of nspire and nspire cas calculators gives TI more credit than they deserve.

[ASTRO491K]

Good to hear from you Hellas1. Yep, the Classpad 330 and TI Titanium are still the best handheld calcs to buy. Recently TI introduces two new nspire/nspire cas handhelds and a new OS for them but they are still inferior devices so why does TI waste their development money on such inferior products? I just don't get it. Are they just plain stupid or something?

Hi all!

Long time no post!

Well, for some reason this forum stopped me from posting!?!

Anyway, It seems that the Classpad 330 & TI Titanium are still the best handhelf calcs to buy.

Just dropped by to say hi.

BTW, Doesn't the economy suck? Shore does for me even tho' I'm employed still.
hellas1

[ASTRO491K]

Hi,
Yes, I am aware that after years now all of a sudden TI offers a rechargable battery pack for their nspire calcuators. I have two comments on that. First, why does it take so long to improve the nspire? At that rate, nspire will never have the math functionality of the TI-89, HP50g or the Classpad all of which are much older designs. Secondly, I didn't have to pay extra for the rechargable batteries for my laptop, nor for the rechargable batteries in my electric razor, nor for my electric tooth brush batteries, and now I am supposed to pay extra to have them in a calculator? Forget it. It is clear to me that the people at TI are busy plotting ways of ripping off the customer and I for one don't plan on being one of their victums.

As for 3d graphing, you said that in your opinion that is not a big deal. Take a good look around you and notice that we live in a 3d world and everything in it is composed of 3d shapes, so it is a big deal and in a few years when you gain some mathematical maturity you will realize that. The lack of a significant 3d graphing capability indicates to me that the nspire products were designed for children doing kiddie math along with their mathematically challenged teachers who have to teach button pushing because of their lack of subject knowledge.

Look, when you buy a calculator, the price is significant. In addtion you invest months or years learning how to use the thing. So to buy a childrens toy that lacks the math features of other calculators, is foolish because in a few years you will want features that are on the other calclulators but not on the nspire/nspire cas calculators. Wake up! That may be good for TI because that way perhaps they can sell you more than one calculator, but it is not good for you (or me for that matter).

Next, I want to address your comment that nspire "it fantastic." That is an immature comment that is not based on facts. If you compare the math features of the nspire products to the Classpad and HP50g you will find the nspire calculators to be second rate.

By the way, a true educational product shows how to solve a problem "step-by-step." Nspire calculators don't do that. So all things considered, the nspire products are very un-inspiring. TI could take the steps to make their nspire calculators competitive with other calculators, but the passage of all this time without TI taking those steps, is a good indicator that nspire/nspire cas will never be anything more than a second rate calculator.

Don't be decieved by the hype, and the spin, and the poor teacher who teaches calculator operation instead of mathematics. Learn mathematics and buy a calcuator that will be of value to you for the long run.

Hi, I'm new here and I just want to give my little bit of knowledge about which is best, the nspire non-cas, the ti 89, the ti 92, the hp 48g, or the casio fx-7400g plus. Now I'm aware that there I am comparing non-cas with cas and old with new. But after reading everyones post here I was unsatisfied with everyones information posted.
First let me answer some of ASTRO491K questions in post #27. In reference to rechargeable batteries Texas Instrument has finally implemented rechargable batteries into their nspire, so your question is answered. I have to admitt that Ti's non-cas nspire doesn't give exact answered as I think would be a much better design, but their cas model does. I don't have a cas model to be sure that it returns an exact answer on the example he gave ,1/sqrt(2) + 1/sqrt(4), but it should if you put it in exact mode. And yeh it does have limited programming but Ti has added more programming commands to there newest line of products so who knows how they are coming along here. 3d graphing is lacking but in my opinion that not too big a deal when considering what you get when you get an nspire( it fantastic!). And what do you mean about old cas. If it gives you the right answers and does so quickly you really can't improve here except maybe add a few more functions.
Hopefully I'll be able to add my full evalution of the nspire in my next post.

[ASTRO491K]

[quote name='2010nspire' date='Apr 29 2010, 05:26 PM' post='48923']
I am not trying to disagree with you about these calculators.

Oh but you are.

I am simply trying to give a fair rating to the nspire.

No, because you own one, you are trying to give nspire a rating that it doesn't deserve.

I am very much aware that the ti nspire cas lacks some of the math capabilities of the classpad and hp 50g.

Actually it lacks VERY SIGNIFICANT AND IMPORTANT math capabilities that the Classpad and Hp 50g have, while it offers trivial nonsense like linking which is not even a math function.

It has more math capabilities than the ti 89 althought the nspire lacks 3d graphing.

Comparing 3d graphing, to the trivia of "convert sin to cos, scatter plot graphing , pie charts, bar chart, a way to manipulate the graph once you have plotted it, a way to determine the formula of a graph without having graphed it in the function menu," is rediculous. All of that is nothing more than trivial nonsense. On the other hand, if nspire had the more serious math capability of the Classpad and the Hp50g, such as Laplace and inverse Laplace transforms, and Fourier transforms, the gamma function, and other important missing functionality, AND, in addition offered something significant to set it apart as a superior math machine, such as 3d graphing of three or four surfaces at once, with rotate and zoom capability, then, I would immediately buy one, and if it worked properly I would recommend it to others. As it is however, there is no reason to buy a second rate calculator when there are better devices out there.

[ASTRO491K]

In saying "the functions on the nspire are more than sufficient for a high school students." and "Ti never has focused on colledge math." You have made my point exactly. Yes, the nspire and nspire/cas calculators are ok for high school students (and for high school math teachers who teach button pushing because they are mathematically challenged) but they are not the mathematical high performers that the Classpad and HP50g are. That makes the nspire/nspire cas calculators second rate math machines. Obviously you can not understand that simple concept because you don't want to. So lets quit wasting our time discussing it.