# Classpad Vs. Ti Nspire: Which Is Better Folks?

### #41

Posted 02 May 2010 - 11:07 PM

If you are talking processor speed, I don't see where the nspire takes advantage of that at all.

3D graphing is horrible on any calculatorÃ¢Â€Â¦like "kiddie 3D graphing" . Use a computer for that. That doesn't excuse the lack of 3D capability though.

Yes, and thats an area where some calclulator manufaturer can make become a star.

Why should I have to spend years learning how to use a calculator? It should be usable and intuitive. The TI-Nspire fails in this regard, at least the first version. I've found that Casio calculators are significantly better.

Agreed.

The Nspire's menu system (as well as most other user interface operations) is cumbersome compared to Casio/HP. I've not had many problems with the abbreviations. That's the biggest problem I have with it.

Please say that again. It is so true! I don't understand why nspire users choose to ignore that big problem while complaining about the HP learning curve.

You can do that with the HP too. Press Alpha twice and type in the command. The one thing I like about the HP's alpha keys compared to Casio's is that the alpha keys don't overlap with number keys.

The real solution to alpha keys is the qwerty keyboard of the Voyage 200 AND getting the wingnuts on the testing boards to accept the standard qwerty keyboard layout.

### #42

Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:32 AM

The well known formulas are simple. cos(x)=sin(Pi/2-x) and sin(x)=cos(Pi/2-x). Why in the world would someone need to have a calculator do that for you? If a person is that mathematically challenged, they should stick to arithmetic, or better still do arithematic by counting on their fingers and toes.

The Nspire is attempting to focus on the user interface as well as conceptual understanding, but it fails on both aspects because they messed up the UI.

Yup, they sure did, and they messed up on switching to a processor that requires more battery drain, and they messed up by restricting programing, and they messed up by introducing products that are mathematically not competitive with other calculators, and they mess up by making it bigger, and they messed up by charging a first class price for a second rate product, and they messed up with a press to test mode that the user can not easily get out of, and they messed up by charging more for rechargable batterys while other device makers such as laptop makers don't, and they messed up by providing text handling but no spell check, and I guess I should stop there or I will be typing for the next hour or so.

Casio's midrange graphing calculators are better suited to education than TI's.

Very definitely yes, but the high school math teachers at the Google tinspire site seem to have a loyality to TI defies logic. I honestly don't understand what is going on there.

And what ("regular") high school student or "mathematically challenged" teacher needs 3D graphing?

High school students who study solid geometry, and the high school students that go on to college next year and study multiple integrals. As for the "mathematically challenged" math teacher, i.e., the one who teaches button pushing rather than math, take away the calclulators and make them teach math. Then if that doesn't work out, they are obviously in the wrong line of work.

And no, I wouldn't recommend the Nspire for advanced college math either, just like I wouldn't recommend it for math olympiads.

Yes, and the point that I try to make is that there are better calculators, especially for those purposes, and that, to put it bluntly, makes nspire calclulators second rate math devices. I don't see how a rational person can honestly argue otherwise.

Why do you think mathematical features are the sole determinant of a calculator?

AW-HA! I was waiting for someone to ask that question. I assume that what you are getting at is the notion, promoted by TI, that nspire calclulators are educational devices for teaching math. Until nspire calculators start explaining how to solve problems in a step by step fashion (which some PC programs do), the claim that nspire calculators are educational devices is simply not true. Nspire calculators give you an answer without explanation. That is the exact opposite of teaching.

### #43 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 04 May 2010 - 02:00 AM

In addtion you invest months or years learning how to use the thing.) I don't know what he means by this.

QUOTE Guest_iMacmatician_*(You can do that with the HP too. Press Alpha twice and type in the command. The one thing I like about the HP's alpha keys compared to Casio's is that the alpha keys don't overlap with number keys.) Yeh but on the nspire you don't have to press alpha or second or anything like it to get the alphabet on the screen. And casio put qwerty on their calc to get it band.

QUOTE Guest_iMacmatician_* (Casio's midrange graphing calculators are better suited to education than TI's.) First I never mentioned anything about casio's mid range calculators. Second I don't see how any are superior to the nspire.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (If you are talking processor speed, I don't see where the nspire takes advantage of that at all.) YOU NEED TO USE THE NSPIRE AND YOU WILL SEE THE WHAT THE 90 MHZ DOES.

QUOTE ASTRO491K The real solution to alpha keys is the qwerty keyboard of the Voyage 200 AND getting the wingnuts on the testing boards to accept the standard qwerty keyboard layout. But as of now it is band on test and thus casio is useless for students.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (The well known formulas are simple. cos(x)=sin(Pi/2-x) and sin(x)=cos(Pi/2-x). Why in the world would someone need to have a calculator do that for you? If a person is that mathematically challenged, they should stick to arithmetic, or better still do arithmatic by counting on their fingers and toes.) That is what calculators are for is to do the redundant and that which would take a long time. They are not for you to use to do what you don't know how to. If you don't know how to do 1+2 you don't need a calculator to do it for you.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (High school students who study solid geometry, and the high school students that go on to college next year and study multiple integrals. As for the "mathematically challenged" math teacher, i.e., the one who teaches button pushing rather than math, take away the calculators and make them teach math. Then if that doesn't work out, they are obviously in the wrong line of work.) Push button teachers don't determine whether ti is better than casio or not.

QUOTE ASTRO491K(Yes, and the point that I try to make is that there are better calculators, especially for those purposes, and that, to put it bluntly, makes nspire calculators second rate math devices. I don't see how a rational person can honestly argue otherwise.) Calculator that lack rare mathematical functions cannot be called second rate when the excel in all other areas.

### #44 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 04 May 2010 - 02:16 AM

And also the batteries in the nspire don't drain any faster than in other calcs. Maybe with older os it did, but with os version 1.7 and up, it last as long as any other calc. After about 5 months of everyday use my nspire battery meter still reads 100%

### #45

Posted 04 May 2010 - 06:04 AM

In addtion you invest months or years learning how to use the thing.) I don't know what he means by this.

What I mean by that is: How long it takes to learn how to use a calculator depends on how often the person uses it, and how often the person gets around to using "all" the functionality, how quick of a learner the person is, and of course how much time the person spends per day, or week, or in some cases per month, learning how to use a new device. Yes, in some cases a person can master a calculator in a week or two but at the other extreme where the owner only uses the calculator "as needed" and only occasionally, it might take years.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (If you are talking processor speed, I don't see where the nspire takes advantage of that at all.) YOU NEED TO USE THE NSPIRE AND YOU WILL SEE THE WHAT THE 90 MHZ DOES.

Processor speed is very important for animations and games. There is no reason to have a calculator faster than the ti-84 or 89 for high school math. Unfortunately, the nspire programing limitations make it unsuitable for any games that might make use of its faster processor speed.

QUOTE ASTRO491K The real solution to alpha keys is the qwerty keyboard of the Voyage 200 AND getting the wingnuts on the testing boards to accept the standard qwerty keyboard layout. But as of now it is band on test and thus casio is useless for students.

No. You are completely wrong. On "some" tests the qwerty keyboard is not qualified, but not on all tests. Furthermore, students spend less than one percent of their time taking those tests, and they can borrow a calculator for those tests, so there is absolutely no reason to use an inferior calculator the other 99% of the time.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (The well known formulas are simple. cos(x)=sin(Pi/2-x) and sin(x)=cos(Pi/2-x). Why in the world would someone need to have a calculator do that for you? If a person is that mathematically challenged, they should stick to arithmetic, or better still do arithmatic by counting on their fingers and toes.) That is what calculators are for is to do the redundant and that which would take a long time. They are not for you to use to do what you don't know how to. If you don't know how to do 1+2 you don't need a calculator to do it for you.

Yes, calculators are for doing the redundant and that which would take a long time. Converting from sine to cosine or cosine to sine, is neither of those things. So the only reason to use a calculator to make the conversion is to avoid memorizing those trivial formulas, and that is a good reason to ban calculators in the classroom.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (High school students who study solid geometry, and the high school students that go on to college next year and study multiple integrals. As for the "mathematically challenged" math teacher, i.e., the one who teaches button pushing rather than math, take away the calculators and make them teach math. Then if that doesn't work out, they are obviously in the wrong line of work.) Push button teachers don't determine whether ti is better than casio or not.

I never said they did.

QUOTE ASTRO491K(Yes, and the point that I try to make is that there are better calculators, especially for those purposes, and that, to put it bluntly, makes nspire calculators second rate math devices. I don't see how a rational person can honestly argue otherwise.) Calculator that lack rare mathematical functions cannot be called second rate when the excel in all other areas.

Huh? Rare mathematical functions? What are you talking about? None of the functions that are on any of the Casio, Hp and TI calculators are "rare mathematical functions," but apparently you are not far enough along in math to realize that.

BTW, I own and use regularly the TI-89, TI-Voyage200, and the HP50g. In additon, I will definitely buy the ClassPad because I like it's UI and 3d graphing. I also use Maple and the SpaceTime math program on my 3 PC's for situations where calculators just don't have the capability that I need. Generally I use a calculator to check the work that I mainly do by hand. I have tried the nspire cas version but I won't buy it for one simple reason. It just doesn't offer any additional calculator math capability. Instead it substitutes trivial and non-math capabilities that are of questionable value, so I view (and I believe correctly) nspire/nspire cas calculators as second rate devices that just don't have any outstanding features.

While I admit that nspire might be good enough for high school math, I don't think it is a good choice for someone who wants to buy a calculator that they can end up using in college, and for the person that doesn't plan on going to college, there is no need to spend the money for a complicated graphing calculator when an inexpensive and easy to use calculator that does arithmetic, exponents, and trig functions should be more than enough capability.

[/quote]

### #46

Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:14 AM

(QUOTE (ASTRO491K @ Apr 25 2010, 09:46 PM) *

In addtion you invest months or years learning how to use the thing.) I don't know what he means by this.

What I mean by that is: How long it takes to learn how to use a calculator depends on how often the person uses it, and how often the person gets around to using "all" the functionality, how quick of a learner the person is, and of course how much time the person spends per day, or week, or in some cases per month, learning how to use a new device. Yes, in some cases a person can master a calculator in a week or two but at the other extreme where the owner only uses the calculator "as needed" and only occasionally, it might take years.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (If you are talking processor speed, I don't see where the nspire takes advantage of that at all.) YOU NEED TO USE THE NSPIRE AND YOU WILL SEE THE WHAT THE 90 MHZ DOES.

Processor speed is very important for animations and games. There is no reason to have a calculator faster than the ti-84 or 89 for high school math. Unfortunately, the nspire programing limitations make it unsuitable for any games that might make use of its faster processor speed.

QUOTE ASTRO491K The real solution to alpha keys is the qwerty keyboard of the Voyage 200 AND getting the wingnuts on the testing boards to accept the standard qwerty keyboard layout. But as of now it is band on test and thus casio is useless for students.

No. You are completely wrong. On "some" tests the qwerty keyboard is not qualified, but not on all tests. Furthermore, students spend less than one percent of their time taking those tests, and they can borrow a calculator for those tests, so there is absolutely no reason to use an inferior calculator the other 99% of the time.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (The well known formulas are simple. cos(x)=sin(Pi/2-x) and sin(x)=cos(Pi/2-x). Why in the world would someone need to have a calculator do that for you? If a person is that mathematically challenged, they should stick to arithmetic, or better still do arithmatic by counting on their fingers and toes.) That is what calculators are for is to do the redundant and that which would take a long time. They are not for you to use to do what you don't know how to. If you don't know how to do 1+2 you don't need a calculator to do it for you.

Yes, calculators are for doing the redundant and that which would take a long time. Converting from sine to cosine or cosine to sine, is neither of those things. So the only reason to use a calculator to make the conversion is to avoid memorizing those trivial formulas, and that is a good reason to ban calculators in the classroom.

QUOTE ASTRO491K (High school students who study solid geometry, and the high school students that go on to college next year and study multiple integrals. As for the "mathematically challenged" math teacher, i.e., the one who teaches button pushing rather than math, take away the calculators and make them teach math. Then if that doesn't work out, they are obviously in the wrong line of work.) Push button teachers don't determine whether ti is better than casio or not.

I never said they did.

QUOTE ASTRO491K(Yes, and the point that I try to make is that there are better calculators, especially for those purposes, and that, to put it bluntly, makes nspire calculators second rate math devices. I don't see how a rational person can honestly argue otherwise.) Calculator that lack rare mathematical functions cannot be called second rate when the excel in all other areas.

Huh? Rare mathematical functions? What are you talking about? None of the functions that are on any of the Casio, Hp and TI calculators are "rare mathematical functions," but apparently you are not far enough along in math to realize that.

BTW, I own and use regularly the TI-89, TI-Voyage200, and the HP50g. In additon, I will definitely buy the ClassPad because I like it's UI and 3d graphing. I also use Maple and the SpaceTime math program on my 3 PC's for situations where calculators just don't have the capability that I need. Generally I use a calculator to check the work that I mainly do by hand. I have tried the nspire cas version but I won't buy it for one simple reason. It just doesn't offer any additional calculator math capability. Instead it substitutes trivial and non-math capabilities that are of questionable value, so I view (and I believe correctly) nspire/nspire cas calculators as second rate devices that just don't have any outstanding features.

While I admit that nspire might be good enough for high school math, I don't think it is a good choice for someone who wants to buy a calculator that they can end up using in college, and for the person that doesn't plan on going to college, there is no need to spend the money for a complicated graphing calculator when an inexpensive and easy to use calculator that does arithmetic, exponents, and trig functions should be more than enough capability.

As a follow up to what has been said here, check the discussion at the following link. From the number of times it has been viewed, people obviously find it quite interesting.

http://forum.ticalcs...?tid=587&page=4

### #47 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 12 May 2010 - 05:35 PM

QUOTE ASTRO491K(No. You are completely wrong. On "some" tests the qwerty keyboard is not qualified, but not on all tests. Furthermore, students spend less than one percent of their time taking those tests, and they can borrow a calculator for those tests, so there is absolutely no reason to use an inferior calculator the other 99% of the time.) QWERTY keyboard are not allowed on ACT, SAT, PSAT and AP exams. These are the ones I know its not allowed on. The ti nspire has a full keyboard and no one has to have any worries about being band or borrowing calculators.

QUOTE ASTRO491K(Yes, calculators are for doing the redundant and that which would take a long time. Converting from sine to cosine or cosine to sine, is neither of those things. So the only reason to use a calculator to make the conversion is to avoid memorizing those trivial formulas, and that is a good reason to ban calculators in the classroom.) I can memorize the formula but I cannot remember 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288 and calculate sin(3.14159265358979323846264338327950288/2-37). O-kay don't exaggerate pi but I still can't do it in my head.

QUOTE ASTRO491K(Huh? Rare mathematical functions? What are you talking about? None of the functions that are on any of the Casio, Hp and TI calculators are "rare mathematical functions," but apparently you are not far enough along in math to realize that.) Rare isn't the correct word to use. But what I mean is no 12th grade math book goes into fourier and laplace. And just because the nspire might lack these functions one cannot justifiably say that it is second rate.

QUOTE ASTRO491K(BTW, I own and use regularly the TI-89, TI-Voyage200, and the HP50g. In additon, I will definitely buy the ClassPad because I like it's UI and 3d graphing. I also use Maple and the SpaceTime math program on my 3 PC's for situations where calculators just don't have the capability that I need. Generally I use a calculator to check the work that I mainly do by hand. I have tried the nspire cas version but I won't buy it for one simple reason. It just doesn't offer any additional calculator math capability. Instead it substitutes trivial and non-math capabilities that are of questionable value, so I view (and I believe correctly) nspire/nspire cas calculators as second rate devices that just don't have any outstanding features.)Another question that I have is why do you call the nspire second rate when the ti 89 offer nothing more than the nspire execpt horrible 3d graphing. If any ought to be called second rate then definantly the ti 89.

Yes the ti nspire does lack some of the advanced funtions of both the hp and classpad. But the ones that it lacks is not a reason to call the nspire second rate. One could rightly call the nspire second rate if it could do basic functions lick convert fraction to decimal, matrices, and sin and cosine, but not when it lacks gamma and beta function which many people probably have never heard of. And another thing about the nspire is that it does most of what the hp and casio do, just it does it ten times easier and faster and more clearly( on graphing).

### #48 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:16 PM

### #49 Guest_Guest_*

Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:44 PM

Quote(Yes the ti nspire does lack some of the advanced funtions of both the hp and classpad. But the ones that it lacks is not a reason to call the nspire second rate. One could rightly call the nspire second rate if it could do basic functions lick convert fraction to decimal, matrices, and sin and cosine, but not when it lacks gamma and beta function which many people probably have never heard of. And another thing about the nspire is that it does most of what the hp and casio do, just it does it ten times easier and faster and more clearly( on graphing). I'm sorry for not checking my spelling. I meant to say "One could rightly call the nspire second rate if it couldn't do basic functions like convert fraction to decimal, matrices, and sin and cosine, but not when it lacks gamma and beta function which many people probably have never heard of.

Any second or third rate calculator can do the easy stuff, and by the way converting from sin to cos is trivial and not a significant software accomplishment, and I notice that is the case for a lot of the nspire stuff, like pie charts for instance. It is the difficult to do stuff that separates the outstanding calculators from the others, but actually the real problem as I see it, is that nspire is probably good enough for high school math but when a person gos on from there to college engineering courses, you will want a better calculator. On the other hand, if you don't go on to college why spend a big chunk of money on nspire when a much less expensive calculator will serve your needs. So,as I see it, the real advantage of the nspire line is for incompetent teachers, the button pushers, who can not teach math without a calculator. For them nspire offers a solution to their difficult situation. Instead of teaching math you can teach which button to push.

### #50

Posted 13 May 2010 - 04:56 AM

Any second or third rate calculator can do the easy stuff, and by the way converting from sin to cos is trivial and not a significant software accomplishment, and I notice that is the case for a lot of the nspire stuff, like pie charts for instance. It is the difficult to do stuff that separates the outstanding calculators from the others, but actually the real problem as I see it, is that nspire is probably good enough for high school math but when a person gos on from there to college engineering courses, you will want a better calculator. On the other hand, if you don't go on to college why spend a big chunk of money on nspire when a much less expensive calculator will serve your needs. So,as I see it, the real advantage of the nspire line is for incompetent teachers, the button pushers, who can not teach math without a calculator. For them nspire offers a solution to their difficult situation. Instead of teaching math you can teach which button to push.

Agreed. There are some very good educational PC path programs that explain how to work problems and then there is nspire which doesn't explain anything and yet there are high school math teachers who want to use nspire calculators to teach math. Why that's insanity. What in the world is wrong with those people?

### #51 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 14 May 2010 - 04:22 PM

Quote Guest(On the other hand, if you don't go on to college why spend a big chunk of money on nspire when a much less expensive calculator will serve your needs.) Yeh and as I have learned cheap calcs will be much more of a headache too.

Quote Guest(It is the difficult to do stuff that separates the outstanding calculators from the others, but actually the real problem as I see it, is that nspire is probably good enough for high school math but when a person gos on from there to college engineering courses, you will want a better calculator.) Yeh but it is the lack of basic math functions that set the second rate ones apart from the first rate. Basic functions are by no means missing on the nspire.

### #52

Posted 14 May 2010 - 06:02 PM

"Yeh and as I have learned cheap calcs will be much more of a headache too." My experience has been quite the opposite. For example the TI-83 which is much less expensive than the nspire and is still available, is reliable and much more intuitive to use than the nspire. To carry that one step further, I have found that the even less expensive casio calculators are totally reliable and trouble free, and even more intuitive to use. The real problem here is the cozy relationship that some teachers apparently have with TI. Take the ones at the google nspire teachers site for instance. They won't even allow a debate of nspire verses other calclulators. I think such people are unfit to make purchasing decisions.

Quote Guest(It is the difficult to do stuff that separates the outstanding calculators from the others, but actually the real problem as I see it, is that nspire is probably good enough for high school math but when a person gos on from there to college engineering courses, you will want a better calculator.) Yeh but it is the lack of basic math functions that set the second rate ones apart from the first rate. Basic functions are by no means missing on the nspire.

[/quote]

Yes, I would "sort of" agree with that. Perhaps we can agree that the first rate calc's like Classpad are the best for college while the second rate calcs like nspire are ok for high school math and the third rate calcs which are basically 4 function calcs are essentual for people who have poor to no math capability and need a calculator to do arithematic.

Let me make this final point. Because of their efficiency and accuracy calculators can and should be used in the work place, but they have become a crutch for the poor math teacher, and that must be fixed or we will have a whole generation of children that are mathematically illerate. It is time for schools to tell math teachers that if you cannot teach math without a calculator, get some training or find a new job.

### #53 Guest_Guest_*

Posted 14 May 2010 - 09:20 PM

The real problem here is the cozy relationship that some teachers apparently have with TI. Take the ones at the google nspire teachers site for instance. They won't even allow a debate of nspire verses other calclulators. I think such people are unfit to make purchasing decisions.

I have wondered about that situation for quite some time. I have read a lot of posts at the nspire google site. Boy, they sure make it plain that the people that are not in love with nspires are definitely not welcome there. I wonder if that site is run by TI or one of their employees or someone that gets some compensation from TI? Perhaps someone could enlighten us in that regard?

### #54 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 15 May 2010 - 12:14 AM

Quote ASTRO491K( To carry that one step further, I have found that the even less expensive casio calculators are totally reliable and trouble free, and even more intuitive to use.) I have a ti 86, a ti 84 plus silver edition (the emulator that came with my nspire), and a ti 81, and a casio x-7400g plus, and

I can honestly tell you that they all are much less intuitive, and harder to use than the nspire, and overall unsatisfactory. It seems to me that much of what is being posted are peoples own beliefs or rumors about the nspire that those who are posting have never experienced first hand... http://www.casiocalc...default/sad.gif. I'm not saying that nspire for all people is guaranteed to be the easiest calc to use. I'm saying that for many people, like at google groups, nspire may be the most intuitive calc they have used. One cannot make an all-inclusive statement that there are more intuitve calcs to use.

Quote ASTRO491K(Let me make this final point. Because of their efficiency and accuracy calculators can and should be used in the work place, but they have become a crutch for the poor math teacher, and that must be fixed or we will have a whole generation of children that are mathematically illerate. It is time for schools to tell math teachers that if you cannot teach math without a calculator, get some training or find a new job.) This we do agree on. Teachers should be in class to teach math and the use of calcs, as they do computers, not just the use of calcs because then students haven't learned the concept behind the math.

### #55 Guest_Guest_*

Posted 15 May 2010 - 08:59 PM

And I have a Voyage200, HP50g, and an old Ti84 that I seldom use. In addition I have tried the nspire and the Casio Classpad. (BTW the Ti-86 and 81 are obsolete and that would of course make them unsatisfactory, and if you are looking for a top of the line calculator then you should buy the Classpad.) In addition I have tutored students for years that have a variety of inexpensive calculators. From that experience, I would say this. The Casio Classpads touch screen is a major advantage! I can enter information much faster with the touch screen than I can pushing buttons. Especially compared to the nspire or the newer nspire keyboard layout. The problem with those units is the small closely spaced buttons on the nspire. That requires careful attention which is time consuming, especially when you have to correct an entry because you brushed an incorrect button while pressing the correct one. That is very irritating to the point where it makes me angry. That is an incredibly bad design! Surely the folks at TI could have done better than that! On the other hand, I have no problem with the classpad touch screen keyboard.

I find the classpad more logical to use than the nspire and here I would make the following point. If you have to use a special scratch pad function or open a new file or folder just to do some quick calculations, as with the nspire, then that makes the thing less intuitive and less desirable to use. You should be able to just turn it on and enter numbers and do quick calculations without "any" other considerations. TI has tried to make the nspire more like a PC than a calculator and in the process screwed up the user interface. Furthermore, when you get beyond kiddie math and take some college engineering courses, the nspire and nspire cas is clearly are not what you will want.

Another point is this. Clearly, anything more than a TI-83 is over kill for high school kiddie math while at the same time the nspire cas is not sufficient for college engineering classes. So one would assume that nspires would not have a market, but what has happened is that by giving high school math teachers a new toy to play with (nspire) some of those teachers have unwittingly become salesmen/women for their new TI toys. That does not mean that those teachers are on to a good thing. It means they have been duped by the nspire spin and hype.

Lastly let me ask you this. While nspire has the ability to store text, how do you spell check it. TI took the easy step of providing storage for text but they short changed that feature by not providing a spell check. They didn't do the job right and the customer gets a poor device as a result. They did that in other areas as well. Their cas needs improvement of its 3d graphing capability but instead of making the improvements, TI simply eliminated that functionality. Thats just plain cheap. To be polite I will simply say that nspire is not a good product. On the other hand, if you will allow me to be more to the point, there is only one logical place to store an nspire calculator and that is in the trash can.

### #56 Guest_Guest_*

Posted 18 May 2010 - 07:18 PM

### #57 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 19 May 2010 - 05:10 PM

Quote Guest_Guest_*(I find the classpad more logical to use than the nspire and here I would make the following point. If you have to use a special scratch pad function or open a new file or folder just to do some quick calculations, as with the nspire, then that makes the thing less intuitive and less desirable to use. You should be able to just turn it on and enter numbers and do quick calculations without "any" other considerations. TI has tried to make the nspire more like a PC than a calculator and in the process screwed up the user interface. Furthermore, when you get beyond kiddie math and take some college engineering courses, the nspire and nspire cas is clearly are not what you will want.)When booting up the nspire you can start doing calculations with the simple press of button "a". If you let it power down automaticly then when rebooting you will be right where you left off. If you shut it down yourself you will have to press "a" again to start doing calculations. BTW when the calc boots up it first brings up the home screen. Pressing "a" brings up the scratchpad where you can immediately start doing calculations.

Quote Guest_Guest_*(Lastly let me ask you this. While nspire has the ability to store text, how do you spell check it. TI took the easy step of providing storage for text but they short changed that feature by not providing a spell check. They didn't do the job right and the customer gets a poor device as a result. They did that in other areas as well. Their cas needs improvement of its 3d graphing capability but instead of making the improvements, TI simply eliminated that functionality. Thats just plain cheap. To be polite I will simply say that nspire is not a good product. On the other hand, if you will allow me to be more to the point, there is only one logical place to store an nspire calculator and that is in the trash can.)HA!HA! as if that is a good reason to abandon and call a product second rate! But if you really want me to answer this question then look at microsoft windows. There are two word programs on it. One is called notepad and the other wordpad. And one is for taking notes and the other is a full word processor. The application on the nspire is called notes and thus it is not meant to do the things of a full word processor. But did you know that the notes application on the nspire is more powerful than notepad on the computer? It only lack the ability to find words. And also if you are going to call that shortchanging what do you call casio that never gave you ability to store text in the first place? Obviously your post is biased.

Quote Guest_Guest_*(The problem with the TI nspire is that it is a convenience that not only crutches the unqualified teacher but it also makes life easier for other high school math teachers because they can teach what button to push as opposed to the math behind it. Also, bare in mind that because nspire calcuators don't provide any explanations for how they get answers so they shouldn't be considered educational devices.) Not a problem with ti but with the teachers. As I stated in one of my earlier post push button teachers do not determine whether ti is better than casio. Also you stated that since nspire doesn't offer explanation to problems it shouldn't be considered an educational device. I then ask you what is an educational device? Probably the first thing that enters any ones mind when they hear that word, is a calculator and one that doesn't give the explanation to the math problem.

### #58 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 19 May 2010 - 06:44 PM

### #59 Guest_Guest_*

Posted 19 May 2010 - 07:08 PM

"I can see the closely spaced keys being a problem for people with very large hands, but for the average people I don't think it will be a problem."

Perhaps, but the problem is large fingers not large hands. And a lot of people seem to have fingers large enough to make that keyboard a problem. In any case you can "I don't think it will be a problem" all you want but it is a problem.

"When booting up the nspire you can start doing calculations with the simple press of button "a". If you let it power down automaticly then when rebooting you will be right where you left off. If you shut it down yourself you will have to press "a" again to start doing calculations. BTW when the calc boots up it first brings up the home screen. Pressing "a" brings up the scratchpad where you can immediately start doing calculations."

Oh, so you have to press "a" and there is a difference between power down automatically or shut it down yourself. Do you also need a decoder ring to use it on tuesday afternoons? All of that nonsense indicates compensation for a bad design. It's a calculator, not a computer and like the other calcluators you would not need a scratchpad if it was a decent design. As a calculator, the whole thing is a scratch pad.

"HA!HA! as if that is a good reason to abandon and call a product second rate!"

Actually there are many reasons and most of them have been discussed on this string. Go back and read them.

"But if you really want me to answer this question then look at microsoft windows."

Actually I really don't care if you do or don't answer the question and no I won't change the subject to PC's.

"And also if you are going to call that shortchanging what do you call casio that never gave you ability to store text in the first place?"

I call the casio classpad a superior calculator and I don't expect nor want the ability to store text. Given the keyboards on calculators, storing text on a calculator is definitely to clumsy and difficult to be of any real value. It's just a gimmic.

"Obviously your post is biased."

Yes, indeed. I most certainly prefer and recommend the best product and if TI ever produces a really good product that is better than the other calculators I will be biased towards it. In the mean time however, it would be really stupid to not recognize that the nspire products are not the best choice.

"Not a problem with ti but with the teachers."

Yes, that is correct.

"As I stated in one of my earlier post push button teachers do not determine whether ti is better than casio."

True, the broader market does, has, and will continue to do so. After a teacher buys a set of calculators they are done for many years so TI must be able to sell the thing to the broader market or face declining sales that won't support that product line.

"I then ask you what is an educational device?"

I thought you would never ask. There are a number of good PC based math programs that explain how to solve problems instead of just giving answers.

"Probably the first thing that enters any ones mind when they hear that word, is a calculator"

No, You are completely wrong here. But do enjoy your time working for TI.

Let me give you something to think about. Over the last few decades, the American auto industry has taken the short term strategy of relying on hype and spin to sell their cars, while the foreign makers took the long term strategy of producing a better product. It took a while but the american car buyer eventually gave up on buying autos from American companies switched to the better products. For reasons that I don't understand, it seems to be the american way to concentrate on hype and spin as opposed to concentrating on producing a superior product and I see the nspire in that context. Although I am American, I have no doubt that Casio will own the american calculator market including the high school math segment in a few years. The reason of course is that products like the nspire rely on hype and spin gimmics, while Casio offers a better product.

### #60 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 19 May 2010 - 08:11 PM

And you say that entering text on a calc is clumsy but you say that you have never had a problem with casio's touch screen.

Why do you say so much without meaning it. Not boasting about myself, but have you seen me do this?

### #61

Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:51 AM

And you say that entering text on a calc is clumsy but you say that you have never had a problem with casio's touch screen.

Excuse me but that is not what he (or she) said. The exact quote was "Given the keyboards on calculators, storing text on a calculator is definitely to clumsy and difficult to be of any real value." Please note the word KEYBOARDS which you mistakenly left out of your complaint. I bring this up because I happen to agree.

If you have seen the small cluster of small alpha buttons at the bottom of the new snpire keyboard surely you must agree that entering very many words using that unaccommodating arrangement would be painfully slow and impractical. It would require one finger typing on what can only be called a minature keyboard. Who is going to take the time to enter several pages of notes that way? Certainly not someone who hasn't lost their mind. Is that a valuable feature? Nah, its just an illusion.

### #62 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 20 May 2010 - 07:28 PM

But I say entering text is no problem on nspire.

### #63 Guest_Guest_*

Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:13 PM

You say "On the other hand, I have no problem with the classpad touch screen keyboard" and then change and say "Given the keyboards on calculators, storing text on a calculator is definitely to clumsy and difficult to be of any real value."

But I say entering text is no problem on nspire.

### #64 Guest_Guest_*

Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:48 PM

To recap, my experience, which surprized me, is that I can enter stuff faster and more easily with a touch screen than with buttons. I also find that the alpha buttons at the bottom of the new spire keyboard are to close together for my use. In addition, common sense dictates that entering pages of notes using any calculator requires one finger typing which is to slow and time consuming to be of much value, but that is ok because there other alternatives, better suited to storing text.

I believe that if TI wants their text storage capability to recognized as being of value, then they must interface their calculator to a standard typing keyboard such as that used with PC's.

You said "But I say entering text is no problem on nspire." I never said there was a problem. I said it was not practical.

I think this discussion has degenerated to the point where it is a waste of time to make any further replies, so good day sir.

### #65 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 21 May 2010 - 02:14 PM

### #66 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:08 PM

### #67

Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:49 PM

I simply am trying to give a fair rating to nspire, and there seem to be many misconceptions that people have about it.

I'm with you there but we just seem to have a different take on reality. It's not a misconception that nspire won't do 3d graphing but a ten year old TI89 will. It's not a misconception that nspire won't do inverse laplace transforms but the old Classpads will. It's not a misconception that nspire won't except plug in memory devices but the older HP50g will. It's not a misconception that nspire will store text but not spell check it. It's not a misconception that nspire will work with rechargable batteries but it doesn't come with them. It's not a misconception that nspire is larger, and it is not a misconception that nspire is vastly over rated.

As the newest and latest entry in the calcuator market you would think snpire would be a real wiz bang of a product that uses the latest technology, but it doesn't even have a touch screen like the much older Casio calculators or for that matter a color screen which comes standard on any cell phone. Just looking at the nspire makes me feel like I've gone back a dozen years into the 1990's. Mean while the Droid which is only a year newer, has a full qwerty keyboard along with the touch screen, comes with a rechargeable battery, camera, has about 20,000 apps available, you can wirelessly go on the internet, and of course make phone calls, mean while the latest TI product has has, oh yes, it their new feature called pie charts? What a croc!!! Friends, the people at TI are stuck in the last century and probably still ware white underware. Meanwhile, the latest phone hand held has voice recognition. Yes, you can speak a word into the Droid and it will do an internet search for that item! Try that on your nthing. Hell, it won't even plot z=x+y much less recognize a word or take a picture. And they want how much for that thing? You gota be kidding me! Jezz! The technology is so old that you should be able to pick up an nspire at a garage or yard sale for two or three bucks! Jezz!

Not very inspiring TI. Actually very very disappointing and certainly not worth the money. Way to retro. It's a dynosour from the old days. Very lacking. Doesn't measure up.

So go ahead, tell me about my missconceptions. I'm eagerly waiting.

### #68

Posted 23 May 2010 - 05:57 PM

### #69

Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:45 AM

### #70

Posted 24 May 2010 - 11:24 AM

So go ahead, tell me about my missconceptions. I'm eagerly waiting.

Removing features is not that uncommon in calculators. I was a bit surprised that Casio's did date calculations in 1975, having just recently been re-introduced in the financial module on fx9860g ... a quite usefull function I'm not that convinced tools like classpad and nspire are worthwhile ... has the functionality reached a threshold where a netbook is more appropriate for it's use?

From Vintage Calculators

### #71 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:26 PM

### #72

Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:10 PM

[...] Tovare I don't understand what you are saying.

To clarify

Both products are geared for an educational context, with tools such as notetaking and demonstrations for which a computer is far superior i.e typing with a qwerty keyboard etc. Look at the capabilities of tools like Mathematica and Microsoft Math ... and others.

Lacking a few features might be an improvement for the NSpire compared to more capable TI-models given it's application domain.

### #73

Posted 25 May 2010 - 01:22 AM

I'm not that convinced tools like classpad and nspire are worthwhile ... has the functionality reached a threshold where a netbook is more appropriate for it's use?

Possibly but lets take a look at what is happening. First of all we have new college students fresh out of high school who can not do multiplication and division correctly. Why is that? Well, its quite natural for someone who uses calculators as a substitute for doing arighematic for years, to forget how to do arithematic. Then making the problem worse are the high school math teachers who lack subject knowledge and can not do math without a calculator either. Of course coming to their rescue, is TI's nspire which is touted as an educational device even though it provides answers without explaining anything. And of course there is the google nspire site which is devoted to convincing teachers not to just use calculators in their teaching, but more specifically to use only the nspire calculator, and that is enforced by the moderator who threatens to expel anyone who posts anything that might question the value of nspire or its capabilities. In addition, there is the infamous Nelson Sousa who puts on training sessions for the teacher dolts who can't figure out how to use a device that is supposed to be intuitive. Just one more thing and I'll be finished. Notice that outside of programing pie charts (Ha,ha,ha,ha, ) TI has not shown much interest in improving the math capability of nspire nor improving its technology by using touch screens, because such things are not needed to sell the nthing to math teachers who need to use it to cover up their lack of subject knowledge.

So whats the solution? Parents who demand that their children be taught math instead of how to operate a calculator, and good teachers who teach math instead of button pushing. Then when junior or missy has mastered the basics of arithematic and algebra, give him or her a really good calculator like the Classpad or Hp50g. On the other hand, if they are not technically orientated give them a more basic, less expensive, and less confusing calculator.

### #74 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 25 May 2010 - 04:58 PM

1.The nspire drains batteries quickly. My experience with the nspire is that there is no unusal battery drain with the new os installed. 2.The ti npsire lacks polar graphing. My experience with the nspire is that it can plot functions, polar, parametric, scatter plots, and sequence plots and custom sequence plots. Also ti has a conic plotter for download on their website.3.The ti npsire lacks programming capabilities. My experience with the nspire is that ti has allowed more programming capabilities with newer os releases.4.The ti nspire can't do differential equations. My experience with the nspire is that with newer os releases ti has allowed a differential equation solver.5. The nspire lacks financial apps. My experience with the nspire is that the nspire now has a full interactive financial solver.6. The ti nspire takes a long time to boot. My experience with the nspire is that the nspire boots up instantly when it has not went into hibernate. If it has gone into hibernation it might take a minute to completely startup.7Finding max, min, roots, and intersections takes longer than on the TI-89. My experience with the nspire is that there is now a menu for analyzing the graphs, whereas you originally had to press an unlabled key.

Maybe I will post more later.

QUOTE TovAre(I'm not that convinced tools like classpad and nspire are worthwhile ... has the functionality reached a threshold where a netbook is more appropriate for it's use?) That kind of what I was thinking. Especially for college I think that a program like maple or wolfram mathematica would be more suitable than nspire, classpad, or 50g and you don't even have to get one so expensive that would be better suited than calculators. That one reason why I just stuck to talking about high school students for whom math programs would be an overkill.

### #75

Posted 27 May 2010 - 02:05 PM

Here are just a list of the few misconceptions people have.

1.The nspire drains batteries quickly. My experience with the nspire is that there is no unusal battery drain with the new os installed. 2.The ti npsire lacks polar graphing. My experience with the nspire is that it can plot functions, polar, parametric, scatter plots, and sequence plots and custom sequence plots. Also ti has a conic plotter for download on their website.3.The ti npsire lacks programming capabilities. My experience with the nspire is that ti has allowed more programming capabilities with newer os releases.4.The ti nspire can't do differential equations. My experience with the nspire is that with newer os releases ti has allowed a differential equation solver.5. The nspire lacks financial apps. My experience with the nspire is that the nspire now has a full interactive financial solver.6. The ti nspire takes a long time to boot. My experience with the nspire is that the nspire boots up instantly when it has not went into hibernate. If it has gone into hibernation it might take a minute to completely startup.7Finding max, min, roots, and intersections takes longer than on the TI-89. My experience with the nspire is that there is now a menu for analyzing the graphs, whereas you originally had to press an unlabled key.

What you have done is listed some improvements that TI made which would not have been necessary if they had done the job properly in the first place. For example, I seem to remember reports of early nspires being introduced in the German school system and that those calculators went through batteries quickly. Yes, hibernation has done a lot to alleviate that problem but TI introduced the product with out the hybernation feature.

Generally, the capabilities you mention were already available on other calculators including TI calculators, so why introduce a second rate product? More importantly, why is the nspire still lacking hardware and software features that other calculators and other hand helds have had for many years? In addition, the really important question to ask is what significant features does nspire offer that other calculators don't have? The problem with nspire is that it simply is not an outstanding product.

Sure the expected hype and spin from TI has lead to that product being over rated, but don't ignore the effect of so called consultants who make money from the training sessions they put on teaching teachers how to use a product that is supposed to be intuitive to use. That also has lead to the over rating so keep in mind that the student planning on going to college would be well advised to pick one of the better alternatives, for example a calculator that offers Laplace and inverse Laplace transforms for differential equation work, and the person planning on going into the workforce is well advised to pick a less expensive more basic calculator that is better suited to their calculating requirements.

Perhaps the reason that nspire has survived this long is because TI has rescued high school math teachers who need to resort to using calculators to compensate for their lack of math ability, and I really question whether teachers like that can be trusted to make objective purchasing decisions with our tax money. Should they be allowed to influence what calculators high school students buy, by using only one product for their demonstrations? I don't think so.

### #76 Guest_ASTRO271L_*

Posted 28 May 2010 - 03:31 PM

Perhaps the reason that nspire has survived this long is because TI has rescued high school math teachers who need to resort to using calculators to compensate for their lack of math ability, and I really question whether teachers like that can be trusted to make objective purchasing decisions with our tax money. Should they be allowed to influence what calculators high school students buy, by using only one product for their demonstrations? I don't think so.

[/quote]

I definitely don't think so either.

### #77 Guest_Charlie_*

Posted 28 May 2010 - 03:37 PM

Perhaps the reason that nspire has survived this long is because TI has rescued high school math teachers who need to resort to using calculators to compensate for their lack of math ability, and I really question whether teachers like that can be trusted to make objective purchasing decisions with our tax money. Should they be allowed to influence what calculators high school students buy, by using only one product for their demonstrations? I don't think so.

I definitely don't think so either.

No body talks about this but you brought up a subject that really needs to be aired out. Some high school teachers have a relationship with TI that is to way to cozy. I don't know what they get out of it but if a professional purchasing agent had that kind of bias he/she would probably be let go. What is the teachers position on that potential conflict of interest?

### #78 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:11 PM

Quote ASTRO491K(Perhaps the reason that nspire has survived this long is because TI has rescued high school math teachers who need to resort to using calculators to compensate for their lack of math ability, and I really question whether teachers like that can be trusted to make objective purchasing decisions with our tax money. Should they be allowed to influence what calculators high school students buy, by using only one product for their demonstrations? I don't think so. rolleyes.gif) Why do you keep bringin this up ?

Quote ASTRO491K(Generally, the capabilities you mention were already available on other calculators including TI calculators, so why introduce a second rate product? More importantly, why is the nspire still lacking hardware and software features that other calculators and other hand helds have had for many years? In addition, the really important question to ask is what significant features does nspire offer that other calculators don't have? The problem with nspire is that it simply is not an outstanding product. ) What does the nspire lack as of the newest os update that other calcs have had for "many years"?

### #79 Guest_ASTRO491K_*

Posted 29 May 2010 - 01:13 AM

Quote ASTRO491K(Perhaps the reason that nspire has survived this long is because TI has rescued high school math teachers who need to resort to using calculators to compensate for their lack of math ability, and I really question whether teachers like that can be trusted to make objective purchasing decisions with our tax money. Should they be allowed to influence what calculators high school students buy, by using only one product for their demonstrations? I don't think so. rolleyes.gif) Why do you keep bringin this up ?

It's a no brainer that if technology is going to be used/demonstrated in classes, then a well rounded approach that demonstrates many leading products is clearly a better education for the students than using/demonstrating just one model, and that of course makes me wonder why a teacher would spend my tax money to buy only one make or model. At the same time, considering that the 83 or 84 are certainly sufficient for high school math, and they cost much less, while at about the same price are the TI- 89 and Classpad which have cas power are a better buy, again what the modivates teachers to spend our tax money on spires, and please don't give me any of that pedigogery nonsense because calculators simply provide answers without explanation which rules out considering them as educational devices. Something is going on there that isn't obvious.

Quote ASTRO491K(Generally, the capabilities you mention were already available on other calculators including TI calculators, so why introduce a second rate product? More importantly, why is the nspire still lacking hardware and software features that other calculators and other hand helds have had for many years? In addition, the really important question to ask is what significant features does nspire offer that other calculators don't have? The problem with nspire is that it simply is not an outstanding product. ) What does the nspire lack as of the newest os update that other calcs have had for "many years"?

Well for starters, the touch screen, and 3d graphing, and Laplace transforms and inverse Laplace transforms, and Fourier transforms, and please understand that none of that stuff is kiddie math like pie charts. In addition, what is seriously lacking is some standout math capability that would make nspire the more desirable product. It just doesn't have such features and because it lacks what other calculators have, it is obvous that the other calculators are the better buy.

### #80 Guest_2010nspire_*

Posted 29 May 2010 - 01:48 AM

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